Crippled Alice 1-0 Watford Fc - 07/03/2020

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Smudger, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Indeed it is. How they are scientific in any shape or form is less clear but accepted as gospel. From the often nonsensical ratings in the papers to those on websites how are these calculated ? What sort of rigour is applied ? Is there any clear breakdown of what has been analyzed to come to the values published ? Perhaps being played out of position has an effect for instance.

    Pussetto is now some sort of scapegoat. Fickle fans ? Not a bit of it surely ? He has not even played a half of football but is being decried as a waste of space. And yes the same nonsense was being said about Doucoure after the space of ten matches. If we have watched a player like Gray consistently show they do not have the technical ability to play at this level week in and week out that is another matter. He has a large enough match playing sample to be looked at.

    The way some are carrying on about Pussetto you would think he is some sort of player we picked up out of the non league pyramid for a joke. He has ability. More than enough. He had a pretty decent initial season at Udinese but for whatever reason he was not in the plans of the new incumbent Tudor. It's a good thing most fans are not scouts or managers. Otherwise players like Tagliafico who barely had a chance to impress at Murcia for instance would have been written off as dross.
     
  2. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    This post ought to be deleted seeing as it is utter illogical drivel. Look in the mirror. Palace are a terrible one dimensional team (ten behind the ball and hope for the best) with zero flair and some of the nastiest petulant players imaginable. Zaha (who thinks he is Messi but clearly isn't even remotely close) and his oversized ego constantly moaning when he is even touched. Don't see Messi doing that even though Zaha's talent is mediocre. Ward going flying after an innocuous challenge, Ayew screeching at the referee along with most of the Palace team. McArthur clutching his leg after a non existent contact. Pathetic team not to mention pathetic fans like yourself. Roy Hodgson that paragon of fair play. A complete joke.
     
    I Blame Pozzo likes this.
  3. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Palace know how to nick a goal and keep clean sheets..

    They seem to be the only team to call us bullies and physical

    Sure Deeney might be but he doesn't show it that often tbh - even yesterday the Palace defence dealt with with him well.

    As for Capoue .. well clearly he just has an issue with Zaha.

    Not normally a "thug"

    Which team doesn't try to influence the ref ?
     
  4. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    For crying out loud. Pussetto, Zegellar, Sema. They’re all bargain bin moneyball pozzo squad fillers. Two went one way and the other one in the opposite direction. They aren’t going to be very good because quite simply they aren’t very good. The Pozzos aren’t expecting them to be, the managers aren’t expecting them to be, they have been moved around to fill squad places and balance the books, that’s it. A player that wasn't a regular starter for Udinese, who was sold to us for the same amount they bought them for isn’t going to come good.. if it smells like a turd and it looks like a turd, it’s generally a turd. Why are so many people struggling with this?
     
    wfcmoog and LaClusazSki like this.
  5. Yawn
     
  6. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Losing to Palace by the only goal is disappointing, but it really shouldn't be unexpected. They play a very different way from Liverpool.
    Avoiding relegation is going to be difficult, but not impossible.
    What I find more disappointing in many ways is reading this forum. What the majority of contributors really seem to care about most is getting one over each other.
     
  7. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I agree with your sentiments on Pussetto. However I don't remember anyone writing Doucoure off apart from the Manager at the time himself!?
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  8. Palace stopped playing fast entertaining football and have become a sort of Burnley - defensive and grinding out results, if it works for them and their fans are happy that's' all that matters

    We've had a problem to find a lone striker and fix a fragile back 4 ever since we were promoted; until those are solved they limit what this side can achieve
     
    Banjo and wfcmoog like this.
  9. Heidar

    Heidar Squad Player

    Exactly. I didn't have this one down as a win. Always a scrappy game on a knife-edge with one goal in it. Disappointing to get nothing from an even game, but we are still in it and only have Burnley left that clog around and shut games out.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  10. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    Very interesting post.
    It is rumoured that Watford just played 5 a side at London Colney and a few friendlies and that was it. No intense training at all.
    Schools in England have an 'Everyone must win' policy. There must be no losers. I went to my old Junior school sports day . They were throwing bean bags into hoop!! Everyone got a certificate. Crazy.. Where was the 100m, hurdles, football, rounders, swimming, cricket? F**king bean bags!!
    What happened the 'House' system and playing to win?
    Too many Parents think their child is the Golden ticket to football wealth and won't accept any criticism.
    I watch 100's of kids each season ski past our Kitchen window during their Slalom/Downhill training. How many have made it from here? Three. Just two in Alpine Skiing and one in X games. There is no Non League skiing, only 2 class levels of professional skiing. You don't make it, you become a recreational skier.
    Parents here accept the difficulties of 'making it'. It costs a fortune, you need sponsorship to stay in the game. The kids are told this at school, during training and by their Parents.
    They are not seen as a financial meal ticket.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  11. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I absolutely agree with you about the lack of competition these days in schools. On the ‘house’ system, it came to my attention only recently that many schools don’t have it. Both my primary and secondary schools did, so I just assumed it was the norm. I asked lots of people at work if their schools had them and over half didn’t. So for these people the concept in stories like Harry Potter was a complete mystery to them.
     
  12. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    This is actually a decent summary of the match. If I was a Palace fan I'd have been fuming at our players. I think the ref was very lenient to us too.

    Roy sussed us out and Palace never looked like conceding. Stop Sarr and we don't score. That's it. Without deulofeu everything hinges on Sarr. Every other team we face will know this. Liverpool gave us plenty of space out of arrogance. No other team will.

    Losing deulofeu is a hammer blow. Teams are terrified of him.
     
  13. Cude>2<

    Cude>2< First Team Captain

    We didn't play well and Palace have become that team where its scrappy and hard to breakdown etc.

    I don't understand how Zaha stayed on the pitch - Was handbags, but you can't raise your hand to a players face.
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  14. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    Is this post symptomatic of an entitlement attitude among many of our fans? Entitled to Premiership football? Entitled to the best footballers? Entitled to witness regular Liverpool-beating form? We might be able to afford the occasional Sarr-type player every now and then but it will never be the norm. We are a small club punching above our weight yet many seem to forget that. We have to try the £5m squad players to see if they can step up. Some do (like Masina, on current form, but many were quite happy to slag him off earlier this season) and some don't. But to judge Pussetto as a turd by implication after a handful of substitute cameos shows entitlement creeping in.

    We have struggled big time this season with fitness (Gracia's fault?) and negativity (QSF's fault?), both contributing to poor results and, tellingly, a huge lack of confidence. We can't just buy our way out of that, we haven't got the money. Despite that, some of our loyal fans are slagging off Pussetto because he's not set the world on fire. I was unfortunate enough to be standing next to some bloke yesterday who spent the whole match criticising everything loudly to anyone who was listening. No support, no encouragement, no positivity, just moan, insult, moan. I did wonder if he was the moaner-in-chief on this board...

    As I've said before, we might stay up, we might not. It's tight at the bottom and every one of the five teams from whom two will go down (I've discounted Norwich) are running out of games. It's exciting, nail-biting, frustrating - all in the same match sometimes. Our club needs our support more than ever in the run in. Keep the faith! COYH!
     
  15. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    I distinctly remember Jumbo, Doucoure getting a fair amount of stick when he joined and after his first few appearances. As usual some people jumped onto his back given the fee given to Rennes while others wanted him to be given time to settle and adapt. I remarked at the time he needed to improve his passing and shooting during the summer. He certainly did and has become for the most part a vital component of the side.

    It's a pity that thread is no longer around but should be somewhere in the archives. The other one is this when people started to appreciate him after he had some time to acclimatize.
    http://www.wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/16-abdoulaye-doucoure.52235/
     
  16. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I might be wrong but my recollection was him playing well away at Stoke and everyone questioned Walter’s judgement!!!
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  17. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I’m with you on giving Pussetto a chance but this entitlement stuff is so tedious. People can have a view on a player without you virtue signalling at them.
     
    NathWFC likes this.
  18. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    By which you're saying that I have to support a negative view of a player otherwise it's virtue signalling? Apologies for trying to remain upbeat at this challenging time of the season!
     
  19. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    No you can disagree as I do. But stop the “entitlement” stuff as if you are superior.
     
    NathWFC likes this.
  20. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Well I suppose it is up to you what criteria you use to decide how good we are. We can all go back as far as we like to prove what we want.

    But personally, looking back over a year as a gauge to assess how good we are, seems nonsensical. Leicester became Premier League a year after they just escaped relegation. Do we average it out, and conclude they were only of average quality as they held up the trophy?

    To assess where we are now, in terms of quality, we should be going back no further than to when Pearson took over, since which we have won more points, for example, than Palace (19 to 17) at just under 1.5 points per game. That is top half form, around 7th looking at the current table.

    So does the Watford coach be "honest" (as you are suggesting) with his players and tell them that are are poor as the past years results prove it? Or does he tell them that they are better than that, top half quality, and since they have all come together as a group they have proved it, now they just need to play at their level more consistently.
     
    Chiswell likes this.
  21. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    There’s nothing wrong with encouraging them to believe that they are better players than the table suggests provided that that doesn’t lead to a complacent attitude towards those teams actually around us. Because, again, it is the real table, not some abstracted chunk of a season, which will matter at the end of the season.
     
    I Blame Pozzo likes this.
  22. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player


    * wised
     
  23. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    You're reading too much into things. I just don't get why some people here and at matches are relentlessly critical, nothing more!
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  24. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Yes, he certainly did, and his first proper start, was against Spurs, if I remember. We played poorly all over the pitch and he was no exception and we got turned over. But the player who received most of the criticism was Doucoure. It was disgraceful.
     
  25. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    This wasn’t my recollection. I had a gander at the 1-4 Spurs thread and your post is simply not true. Someone specifically asked how Doucs played and there was about ten responses ranging from “poor” to “best of a bad bunch”. The following game away at Stoke everyone is full of praise for him questioning Wally’s sanity.

    These reactions hardly count as “disgraceful” in my book. I know you like to paint our fans this way, but there are lots of more relevant examples for you to use. Holebas/Sarr etc.
     
    GoingDown and lowerrous like this.
  26. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    You make it sound like it is trying to fool someone or treat everyone like little children.

    EVERYBODY knows that the teams with the least points at the end of the season gets relegated. That is not the point when we are discussing how good we are now, what is our comparative quality right now, as it is the team/coach we have right now that will be playing the last nine games, not the team/coach we had back in September, or in January 2019.

    If we ignore the points for a moment, yes we had a bad run of results in Jan/Feb, but our performances for large part of some of those games were OK, 2 nil up against Everton for example, before we collapsed, against Villa too. Spurs with the penalty miss. And Brighton where we lost two points due to an awful own goal. Yes, we lost points from winning positions due to our mental fragility that is hard to shake out of when the players are surrounded by such negativity everywhere else. But why do people only look at the result when assessing 90 minutes play. As I have said many times, I wonder why some people actually bother to watch a match, when they can just see the result and make up their mind from that (as long as it was a bad result). Then to almost write off our performance against Liverpool as something to be ignored when assessing our quality, is madness. It was a demonstration just how well we can play when we get our act together. We outplayed a side that is 20 odd points clear at the top, with three of the best players in the world up front, and to outplay their midfield, and to make their defence, including Van Dijk, look so poor - without one of our best attacking players for 70 minutes.

    And it isn't just the players I'm on about here, it is the fans who strangely choose to base their opinions on how poor we are by looking back a year, or back to the start of the season, two managers back, rather than what we have been like over the past two months since Pearson joined us. The only possible reason, in my mind, is that they are merely doom-merchants who search out whatever negative stuff they can find back up their decision to give up like wimps.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  27. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I'm not just talking about the one thread, he was criticised consistently for quite some time following that game.
     
  28. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    And that's why France always manage to maintain ten players or more in the top 100,certainly on the ATP.
    In individual sports you can't hide.Even in doubles you can isolate the better player and exploit the weaker one.
    Dom asked if anyone was surprised at the result. Surprised no but I did hope that we would be resilient and gain a point.
    Lord knows those of us who have watched,especially at their monstrosity of a ground,know it's always bad tempered and tight.
    Possibly even more than BHA,our fans and it appears players dislike Zaha. This creates a siege mentality from their team and they protect the multi millionaire 28 year old child.
    NP has a real dilema. He knows RP has talent but he has checked out and someone needs to fill the void. Pussycat Willum or Danny W?
     
  29. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Ok, its now 40 hours ish after the event and some of you are still arguing about it all.

     
  30. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Having seen the extended highlights it's clear we played ok. It certainly wasn't a performance deserving of defeat. But once again, those fine margins have gone against us. We could have easily won that game 1-0, but those little failings contribute to yet another defeat.

    Plenty of people are having a pop at Pereyra, but I think that's unfair. Maybe expectation is too high with him and this is why it's looking like he's failing, but I do not see a lazy player. I see him working as hard as anyone else and he's very good in the transition from defence to attack. You can play the ball to him and he generally retains it well. Players like Cathcart seem to get an easy ride, but just as against Everton, he has cost us a goal. For me, he's just not aggressive enough and he should be closing Ayew down. He had time to do so, but was just too tentative and didn't want to get hurt. Then we find ourselves a goal down, against the run of play because of it.

    The very minimum we should have got from this game was a 0-0, but that one moment cost us the match.

    However, looking at the season in it's entirety, I think overall we've been hard done by. A lot of things have conspired against us. I'm well aware of some dreadful performances, such as against Brighton (h ), City (a ), Burnley (h ), but those real stinkers haven't been widespread. Overall our performances this season have been better than 27 points worth. Refereeing decisions have mainly gone against us in key moments as well. 4 handball goals all missed when going against us, but spotted the other way around is just typical of how it has gone. Losing Geri at a vital moment, just as soon as Sarr comes back is another typical thing for our luck.

    We've had a lot of luck this season, and all bad.

    But of course we cannot discount problems within the team but since Pearson took over, they have been largely ironed out. Still, I made a bit of a joke before Liverpool, if we lose the next two he'd be sacked. But I stand by that. The Liverpool result has saved his job. Just imagine had we lost to Liverpool? Since missing that penalty to Spurs and only drawing, we've gone on to lose at Villa, to Everton, draw at Brighton, defeat at United, and a defeat against Palace. It's an awful run of 1 point from those 5 games. Thankfully we did beat Liverpool or else I think the chances of staying up would be quite slim right now.

    We now have 9 games left, and we probably could stay up with another 11 points. 3 wins and 2 draws MAYBE enough.

    But I have to be honest, if I look at this objectively, I think it will be us and Bournemouth who will go.....looking at this today. It can all change of course with a couple of results either way, but I think West Ham have too much quality not to get the points they need. Villa are unpredictable, and it does depend on how many points they get in their two games in hand and Brighton have a lot of resolve. They are similar to Palace in their ability to grind out 0-0 draws and 1-0 wins. Losing Geri has probably tipped the balance against us, although it's still very tight and I'm hoping that finally we will get some lucky breaks for the first time this season in the final run-in.
     
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  31. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    One thing I’m happy to concede is that direct criticism from me of Pusseto is unfair, it’s not his fault.

    However it’s born out of frustration watching Pearson not making any subs against Palace when it clearly wasn’t working, but then when he finally did the penny dropped as to why. It’s not necessarily him being slow to react, it’s that what he has on the bench wasn’t good enough to come on and make a difference, in fact it only made things worse.

    I don’t think it’s entitlement to expect that during the transfer window with us in the relegation zone, that our owners might seek to give us a better chance of avoiding the drop. Instead they shuffle their pack of squad filler also rans and give us Pussetto, a player not good enough to be a regular starter for their other club.

    He isn’t meant to be a game changer, he’s just squad cover hence why I’m happy to concede why criticism of him directly is unfair. But the fact that people can’t see that though and are expecting that given enough time we will see a difference outcome with him is bewildering.
     
    Maninblack likes this.
  32. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It's difficult to form a view on Pussetto based on what we've seen here. However the fact is that he wasn't good enough to play regularly for Udinese so he arrived with very low expectations as our 4th choice winger. No reason to suspect he's anything other than that.
     
  33. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    We're all capable of it. It is why we are all near the bottom
     
  34. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    So we have 27 points from a possible 87 and you think based on that we will end up with 33 or 34. Bournemouth have the same and Villa have 25 yet both of these team will end up with more than us. That doesn't really make any sense
     
  35. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    It's already allowed for in the post you quoted.
     

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