Arsenal 2-0 Watford FC - 29/09/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by domthehornet, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. CaveManHornet

    CaveManHornet Reservist

    It will be a very depressing end to the season for anyone who is mental enough to believe we will finish top 7 let alone top 4
     
  2. We'd noticeably slowed second half and it screamed out for change, Javi did his normal 'too little too late'.
     
  3. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Don't see what Navarro did wrong. From my river, which admittedly made recognition of individuals occasionally difficult, it seemed a solid debut in a new league.
     
  4. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Good performance but for second game in a row our wastefulness costs us. We need to beat Bournemouth to get momentum back into the season especially with one of those awful international break afterwards with awkward looking Wolves away next up.

    I’d rotate a bit next week. Kiko for Navarro, Success for Gray.
     
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  5. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Ironic that when our keeper goes off injured in a match last season, his replacement costs us the points.

    Today when our opponents suffer the same injury fate, their replacement plays a massive part in us not getting any points.

    That we are all so disappointed tonight shows the progress we are making. For large parts Arsenal were below par and that shouldn’t have been a 0-2 loss today. Once again we’ve paid for poor finishing when on top in a match, and for a two minute wobble at the back just as against Man Utd. Poor at both ends when it mattered most. Our first blank of the season, but six matches now without a clean sheet.

    Work to do, but still lots of positives.
     
  6. Heidar

    Heidar Squad Player

    Nice to know we have absolutely no worries about the other end of the table this season. Newcastle, Huddersfield, Cardiff and Southampton are absolutely dog*****!

    Beat Bournemouth and we'll be in an excellent position to cement a top 10 fight.
     
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  7. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Marking space instead of players. Not getting tight enough most of the time
     
  8. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Arsenal only had 2 shots on target whole game.
     
  9. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Il make this short and sweet as I didn’t go or listened to the game but did catch the last 10 in the shout box due to shopping in the Harlequin.

    Only going purely on what I rea, we are still playing well overall but have lost our confidence in front of goal. Did the Manure result effect the players?

    Gracia really needs to change things and perhaps sticking With same 11 is getting found out. Why not start Kiko fir a change? Can Success come on SH instead and perhaps give Deeney or Gray a rest? Sonething needs to change and quickly.

    Good performances mean nothing at the end of the season when you cant score goals from good chances. Gracia has sorted our defence out but now needs to find a system from defence to goal.

    I don’t think we’re going to drop down the leauge like a stone and it was Arse Away, but it’s worrying reading today again of a good performance is not turning into points. It’s purely on Gracia’s shoulders now to get that winning formula back.

    Bournemouth will see us as equally winnable as we are going through a bad patch with 1pt from 9 but we have played Manure and Arsenal so I am not dissatisfied in the run, just a bit frustrating that we have not of seen more of our good play turned into goals.

    It will turn though, and Bournemouth at home is a good place to start after three tricky games. Don’t lose faith boys, we still believe in you.
     
    Ray Knight likes this.
  10. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Agreed with the first one. Not the second.
    Chalobah for Capoue wudnt be a bad shout next week to freshen up the midfield. Keep the rest the same.
     
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  11. Think it's a good job there's an international week now to be honest as our players need a rest before going into these games.

    We can't go on hammering the first 60-70 minutes non stop each game without it taking its toll.

    Otherwise we're likely to see the same second half of the season decline as the last couple of years.
     
  12. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    The difference was the subs when Iwobi came on Gracia should of made a change. Waited to long, Capoue should of been replaced by Chalobah. But overall a very good performance we just gave them a game for 80 mins. And if Success or Gray put away one of those chances we would of been looking at a completely different result. Can go into the next game with confidence after competing with two top teams over the week
     
    Ray Knight likes this.
  13. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    Success scores and it's a completely different outcome. That's all that needs to be said.
     
  14. Still don't like 442

    The advantage of having 2 up top is outweighed by having to work twice as hard to make up the overload elsewhere, and its downright bonkers to leave a player of the quality of Chalobah on the bench

    Javi needs to think again because this 4222 thing is flawed
     
  15. cfdr0ftaW

    cfdr0ftaW Academy Graduate

    Interesting that there are calls to change the starting XI, when for the first time since the QSF season we actually have some stability. Personally I think the time for rotation will come, but not 7 games into a season where we've arguably played well in every single one.

    I understand the argument for Kiko, but Navarro was solid today. He marked Aubameyang out of the game on his PL debut, who was subbed off with his tail between his legs, and what sporadic joy they did get down that side was through Monreal on the overlap.
     
  16. Zolacoaster

    Zolacoaster Academy Graduate

    Overall very promising performance. A lack of quality in the final third has ultimately cost us the game. It should be 6 points from both Arsenal and Fulham based on the performances but unfortunately we only have 1 for our hard work.

    I thought Deeney and Hughes were our standout players today. Both were trying to make things happen and Deeney was very unlucky with his glancing header. Pereyra had a mixed performance and sometimes needs a rocket up his arse to inject some of his undoubted quality and pace into the game. Doucoure was poor by his standards but always gives a solid performance just not yet up to his levels of last season. Cathcart slightly off the pace a couple of times but on the whole the defence performed for 80 mins just couldn't keep it up for the 90 minutes. Thought it an odd decision to start Navarro ahead of Kiko. Navarro didn't offer any quality in the final third particularly with his below average crossing.

    Javi's substitutions or lack of them are bewildering at times. Last week at Fulham we were crying out for Chalobah to come on and secure the midfield and for Success to come on earlier. This week again Chalobah is an unused sub despite both Capoue and Doucoure tiring towards the end. Glad to see Success get some minutes and could have been a fantastic substitution. I thought Gray played well and battled alongside troy. Thought Kiko could have come on before Navarro to provide more width and quality into the box.

    Still a fantastic performance to the season which hasn't been lucky but brought about through togetherness, hard-work, and moments of quality. Now we need to improve our game management both from the players perspective and managers. Also, we have to convert our chances when in the ascendancy which is due to both the final ball and finishing. So much to look forward to and we need to make sure we don't let this season turn into how our last 3 seasons have gone.
     
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  17. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    That one was hard to take as 3 points were there for the taking. Performances are still very good though, but right now results are not reflecting this.

    Too many people will just look at the results and not beyond that.

    Tonight I'm really disappointed we didn't beat Arsenal away. Seriously, you have to give your head a wobble to think we're are now a team with an expectation like that.

    Right now we're going through a spell where we cannot score goals, whereas earlier in the season we were taking our chances well.

    How's your luck, Cathcart scores an own goal just moments after Success misses a wonderful 1 v 1 chance.

    The final score of 2-0 will sound like a routine win for Arsenal, which is frustrating. I predicted 4-2 to Watford and I'm claiming that one, as today that should have been the final score.

    Seeing some jabs thrown at Gracia today, from the usual posters, but he's doing a brilliant job.

    As long as Watford maintain this level of performance, then it's only a little bit of luck and some quality lacking in the final third that's prevented us winning every match this season. The only part where we've fallen short is that 15 minute spell against United.

    Only two defeats, to United and Arsenal. It's not a disaster by any means. We've beaten and drew with Spurs.

    This team excites me greatly. I just love watching them, although of course I'm frustrated and disappointed tonight, I know we'll come again and will give it a right good go next week at home to Bournemouth.
     
  18. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    The curse of Harry the Hornet is yet to be lifted, we wont win until the new year.
     
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  19. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Unfortunate it seems.

    Another decent performance by all accounts .
     
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  20. simpleMASH

    simpleMASH Reservist

    I’m frustrated after that. On the balance of play I think we deserved a draw but if you don’t score you’re giving yourselves a big job to do at the back.

    Time to rotate a bit I think. You can justify the same team again and again when you win but when you don’t and they look tired and you have players that have impressed in cup games you really need to use the squad.

    Chalobah, Wilmot and Success in from the start v Bournemouth.
    Who to drop I don’t know. Probably Hughes (puts a great shift in but stil not convinced of him as a creative force out wide) and, harshly, Gray. Thought he was great against Fulham but his touch and passing are not up to scratch. Let’s see if Success can make it three goals from three starts.
     
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  21. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    No huge criticism of Gracia for me. I think he maybe left it a little late to change things but I'm sure he will be looking at the fact that we were 70 mins in and on top against Arsenal with the players he had out there - some were visibly tiring though. My little gripe about the game is that a little bit of naive defending cost us again. When we had throw-in's deep in our own half, we aren't cute enough with them or get them far enough up the pitch - we invariably give possession away from them very easily. Arsenal's 1st goal came from them being in a similar position and them just clearing their lines with a lengthly throw-in...rather than be set up for it, Cathcart happily and knowingly gave them a free-kick on halfway and the goal came directly from it. We need to be more switched on as good footballing teams will punish us if we give them too much easy possession.

    But thats it - I thought we were unlucky today. I think Gracia got it right by picking Navarro and but for a bit of rustiness, he did well. Let's not be too quick to condemn Navarro or criticise. A few people calling for Chalobah or Kiko to come in next week. Maybe. But I would say if Chalobah comes in, it would be at the expense of playing one upfront, or dropping Doucoure. Some are saying bring him in for Capoue - but that sets a wrong tone for me. Capoue has outshone Doucoure so far this season and doesn't deserve to be dropped. The one player outside of the regular XI we've started with, who deserves to be seriously considered is Success. was outstanding on Wednesday and has scored in both of his starts. Would be harsh on Gray but I think Success might be a better option against Bournemouth. But again, I wouldn't criticise Gracia if he didn't make that choice and kept it the same. No need for panic changes when you look at the wider picture IMO.

    All in all, theres lots to be positive about. 7 games in and we've played 3 of the Top 6. Winning one and unfortunate not to take points perhaps in the other 2. We have a run of winnable games now and start that run of games in 6th place and playing well, with minimal injuries (and returning players) and genuine competition from players knocking on the door of the starting XI.

    A disappointing scoreline today. But thats all it is. It's so different to when we were losing games last season. Theres so much more to be positive about.
     
  22. Not massively knocking Gracia as we are playing really really well.

    But tiredness has now effectively cost us 3 games in a row. As in all 3 games we've fallen away and conceded late while looking leggy and tired.

    And in all three games the subs have come after the oppo has scored.

    I'm no manager. He knows what he's doing. But it seems obvious to me at least that after 60 minutes the players start tiring and chasing the game, and subsequently conceding goals. And it's becoming a pattern now. 1 game ok. 2 games, in different circumstances ok. 3 games now.

    Let's look at Bournemouth after 60 minutes and see I guess.
     
  23. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Agree, I said this a few games ago, we need to rotate a bit. It isn't about "dropping" it is about freshening things up, giving players a rest and increasing the competition between the full squad, and giving valuable experience and playing time to everyone.

    I can't remember ever having such a large capable squad, with able deputies all over the pitch. We should use them more, the season is long.
     
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  24. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    I don’t post so much on here these days as I know I’m totally discredited due to my earlier opposition to Gracia’s appointment and then his retention during the summer.

    So I respect that my views are probably fairly worthless anyway these days.

    But I’m thoroughly enjoying the season and hope everybody is too.

    Just a few months ago we went to away matches resigned to losing and not scoring.

    Today that happened and most of us are in shock because we played so well, and look such a better outfit than we did as last season spluttered to a miserable and mediocre finish.

    We’ve competed well in every match. We look a decent unit. And even our injury curse seems to have lifted, as we’ve only made one change to our starting line up all season so far (only Wolves can better that as they’re unchanged in all seven matches).

    We’ve lost today, somewhat unfortunately, to a side who have now won 7 in a row. Hard to take, but it’s still been an excellent start to the season.

    I still wish we’d been bolder in the transfer window and signed another forward. That may still come back to bite us. But the man I thought was clueless has proved anything but, and long may that continue!
     
  25. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Free hit & decent performance. Not disappointed.

    It's a joke reading all the biased 'what if' talk from all the usual suspects on here each week ....HB1 saying expecting 3 points before the game & should have been 4-2 (on what basis exactly?) Success scores & it's a different game...complete blah & utter nonsense.

    Chances were not taken & sometimes it goes like that, happens to all teams. You can see they possess a little bit more finesse, especially in front of goal, as should be the case when you play at home & have a 150m+ squad.

    If we continue to play in that vain, we'll be ok this season.
     
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  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I agree with your sentiment, but the performances are still very good. We went to the Emirates and were the better team. We missed so many good chances and we could easily have won. The same at Fulham also. This current team is playing well and doesn't really need freshening up.

    However, results do have an impact. Now fringe players will be knocking on Gracia's door asking to play, and it's a harder conversation now as we've not won in 4, with two defeats.

    Personally, I would have given Chalobah some minutes today as he needs to build up. But we do not know what the medical team have advised. Maybe they said only use him sparingly as he did play on Wednesday and is coming back from a bad injury.

    The player I have the most sympathy for is Kiko and I'm surprised Gracia is overlooking him so much. It wouldn't surprise me if Kiko started asking questions over his future. If he can't get into the side when Janmaat is injured, or can't get in when Deulofeu is injured, then when is he ever going to get a starting place?

    Success' performance at MK Spurs really showed he's ready for a first team start, but coming off the bench for Gray today is ok too, especially as he played 90 minutes on Wednesday.
     
  27. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I think there has been a change in approach since the United game. Even though we were winning all our games we started slowly in the first half in every match, only coming to life in the second half, which was enough to win these matches. That finally come unstuck against United as it allowed them to take a commanding 2-0 lead before we threw the kitchen sink at them.

    Since then Fulham, Spurs and today we've started a lot stronger, but there is a cost. We have tired in the final 10 minutes of these games, allowing the opposition into the game. This is ok, if we manage to storm into a commanding lead in the first 60 minutes, but if it's still tight, then we can become vulnerable later on.

    The only way we can avoid this is with swapping out tired players at around the 65th minute mark, if required, to keep the impetus going.
     
  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Chalobah was class on Wednesday and genuinely was the standout midfielder on the pitch. That being said, he looked EXTREMELY tired around the hour mark and I was amazed he lasted the full 90. Was obviously breathless and hobbling around with cramp when there were breaks in play. I think todays game just came too quick for him in terms of full-fitness and think your assumption about the medical team advising as such is spot on.

    I can see why you say that about Kiko. But he will know as well as everyone else that Gracia hasn't really seen him as a full-back since JG arrived. And if he believe's he should be starting in our midfield, you would have to ask him what he bases that on this season? Navarro started in both League Cup games and was solid enough to be given the nod today IMO. Would have been harsh to pick Kiko when he wasn't selected in that position in those games. I think today's scoreline might see Kiko given that chance next week but it should not be seen as individual criticism of Navarro IMO.
     
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  29. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Reservist

    I’m not going to read any of the posts because I assume there will be a swathe if numpties criticising Javi in some way

    Once again, and as in every game so far this season we were massively in that game all the way through. The level of performance and energy has stepped up so hugely vs Silva that losses are much easier to take. We bossed large parts of that and for better finishing we’d have had a better result.

    If you feel composed to moan you really need a little look at yourself. Arsenal the first team to concede 0 against us this season and not because we created nothing.

    Keep playing like this and we’ll comfortably finish top 10.
     
  30. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Reservist

    Is this serious? 4222 is the best thing that happened to this team in a long time
     
  31. Agree. If I recall, the first few games there were complaints that we had a poor first half followed by a great second half.

    The last 3 games it's been the reverse.

    I guess it's finding the balance and having spells of pressure while managing fitness level so we can see out 90 minutes.
     
  32. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    This.

    I'll be concerned if we dominate Bournemouth but don't put anything in the net.

    After 75 minutes we had done terrifically and were looking like to get at least a point. If we play the same 10 times against the likes of arsenal we get a result in 8.
     
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  33. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    He didn't do anything really wrong, but we missed DJ overlapping and crossing from the right.
     
  34. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I agree. Managing games is crucial, but it's a learning curve. Don't underestimate our recent run was particularly difficult. I looked at the next 6 league games after the first three wins and decided that would dictate if we are the real deal or not. I've been extremely impressed with the side and how we've taken on these games.

    Spurs (h), Reading (a), United (h), Fulham (a), Spurs (a), Arsenal (a)….with Bournemouth (h) and Wolves (a) still to play.

    Apart from a dodgy 15 minute spell against United, we've been superb and results have not been reflective of performances, which does happen.

    If we beat Bournemouth, which I would expect us to do, then that would be 7 points attained from a difficult run of games. However, I do feel Wolves away could well be our hardest match of the season, but you never know, we may even get something from that game.

    From what I've seen of this Watford side, we are the "real deal" and can sustain a top half place. It just seems different this year and I think this Watford team will keep the high performance level going.
     
  35. With A Smile

    With A Smile First Team

    We've seen it year after year after year. If you don't put your chances away eventually you get punished.

    We lost that because we weren't clinical enough

    They say the sign of a good side is to win when they are playing badly, in the last 4 games we have drawn one lost three playing bloody well, which can easily become demoralising. Now its about character and bouncing back against a fast, attacking, physically challenging and very well organised side next week
     

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