33 Minutes Of Foulquier

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Doyleyftw, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. Doyleyftw

    Doyleyftw Academy Graduate

    Those 33 minutes of Dimitri Foulquier at the Etihad, where we were 5-0 down after 30 minutes. I can't help but think these will be the deciding factor to send us goal down on goal difference.

    His name etched into Watford folklore, for all the wrong reasons, after being selected to start by QSF, who himself should have never been at the club. A reminder that Foulquier completed half as many passes (2) as he did concede goals (5) in his time on pitch against Man City.

    There will be many moments and games which I'm sure we're looking back on this evening, thinking we could have got X number of points/goals if a VAR decision went in our favour but this is surely one of the more preventable mishaps of the season.
     
  2. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Conceding so late away at Villa is the one imo.
     
  3. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Was he mainly at fault for all the goals then ?

    11 players in a team remember.

    Didn't Foster give a penalty away for example ..
     
  4. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Nope - it’s all down to Deeney for not asking to be dropped if you believe some of the oddballs on here.
     
  5. NorwegianOrn

    NorwegianOrn Academy Graduate

    I know he won us a pen yesterday, but Kiko's positioning. Continuously all over the place.

    Feel free to go back and watch all goals we have conceded this season. He is the main reason we go down.
     
  6. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Giraldi rated him so this is invalid.
     
    Smudger likes this.
  7. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    But got himself an Aguero shirt. Who's the real winner after all?
     
    SkylaRose and wfc4ever like this.
  8. RS2

    RS2 Academy Graduate

    Kiko is the main reason we go down? Not throwing away leads against Southampton, Sheff Utd, Villa, Everton or Brighton then? If we're blaming individuals then Troy missed a penalty against Spurs!
     
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  9. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    No goals in a number of home games till December from August hasn't helped.
     
    Smudger likes this.
  10. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Football?
     
  11. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Reservist

    Our pre season has done it also. Under prepared, lack of collective team spirit and a total disregard in respect to our Championship defence and weak forward line. Gracia's soft underbelly as a coach coupled with QSF's disastrous re-appointment did us absolutely no favours.

    The Pozzo's pride themselves and scouting and never owning a relegated side. Unless we have a massive slice of luck in our final three games and other sides do us a favour for three more games, that will change.
     
  12. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    I'd say the appointment of QSF was the one.
     
  13. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Foulquier might've been rubbish but he was unfairly scapegoated by Quique for this game - he was no worse than any of the others in the time he was on the pitch and most of the goals came from the other side.
     
    Watfordftw likes this.
  14. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    Definitely. You can point to individual events (villa etc) but every team would’ve had those, and equally there would’ve been similar individual events that also went in our favour.

    The only question mark over the QSF appointment is who they would’ve appointed instead and what their record would’ve been over the rest of the season. I think Pearson was a Hail Mary so don’t think it would’ve been him at that stage. So we’ll never know who we might have had instead and what they would’ve done. If it had been Nige then sure, we’d be comfortably safe now.
     
  15. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    That is what I thought.

    A couple were from free kicks and one penalty early on.

    Pereyra came on - I doubt he did much to stem the attacking tied.
     
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    There are lots of reasons why we are at risk and they've all contributed.

    But in my opinion, the biggest by far have been:
    • Failure to adequately invest in the defence for yet another year.
    • Hangover from the end of last season not being nipped in the bud.
    • Clueless re-hiring of QSF.
    If we stay up after some of the things that have happened this season, it will actually be remarkable that somehow, 3 teams will have conspired to be worse than us. There's just been so little reason for cheer at all this season.
     
  17. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Whatever the outcome of this season, it has been a catalogue of errors and cannot be attributed to one thing or one person. VAR has gone against us, managerial appointments have not worked, form of players has been below par, attitude of players has been off kilter, the bonus debacle between the owners/players has been a distraction. For me the biggest issue has been the squad simply is not very good, despite the hype.

    If we are to go down who would you expect to get a big move? Doucoure maybe but based on what he can do rather than what he's done this season. Sarr for his potential. Pereyra because he doesn't want to be here and has already made that clear. Other than that I'm not sure people will be falling over themselves to sign Chalobah, Dawson, Cathcart, Kabasele, Deeney, Capoue, Hughes, Femenia, Masina, Gray, Cleverley...and there is a reason for that.

    All the young European lads that are out on loan are all well and good exciting our teenage fan base because of their mad skillz and stats, but it feels as though we are planning too much for tomorrow and have taken our eye off today.
     
  18. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    I'm no teenager unfortunately Leighton but I am sincerely hoping that just for a change we do bring in Estupinan and Suarez. They have great ability to become very high level performers in their particular roles.

    I agree with Burnsy. Complacency was a killer. The squad was not freshened up. The poor pre-season which Skyla and others have mentioned. Dreadful conditioning compared to last season and saw the team out on their legs by the eightieth minute. Gracia too nice a manager and then appointing Flores in panic.

    Also while some may single out HornetBoy for his continual stress on the efforts of officials and VAR some of which does go over the top you cannot say that we have had the rub of the green with it. From points being lost through it against Newcastle and other games where Deulofeu was bundled over and Alli scores a handball equalizer or Djenepo handling for Southampton. And then the lack of concentration and sloppiness. From the last second defeat at Villa Park for instance to Deeney missing a vital penalty.

    It's been a poor season throughout the sole highlight being the Liverpool win. When we were on the resurrection course piloted by Pearson there were a couple of games in there that we should have won. Everton at home when 2-0 up and coasting and the Tottenham home match. That is five very crucial points indeed.

    However the general lacklustre performance of the side is also contributory. Not enough quality at the back or upfront. Minimal threat at set pieces and a team mentality with a tendency to buckle under the slightest of pressure until Pearson came in. Areas like these can be worked on with better medical staff, training regimens and psychologists and finesse coaches.

    We will need to up the game in these areas next season. And while some have this nostalgia about the Championship there is only one place to be whether you like or hate the circus surrounding it and the hype. And that is the Premier League.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  19. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    I blame Doucoure for missing that chance against Arsenal that even Deeney could have scored.

    I'm sure he'll be gutted as he's sitting on Everton's bench next season.
     
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Genuinely think Everton will pass on him now. I’m sure it was Silva driving their interest - Ancelotti will have his sights set higher.

    No one really knows quite how much Gino would want for Doucoure - but if the player is honest, he’s dropped off massively and doesn’t look at all like he deserves to be playing higher than us anyway. He’s not a stand out player at all. I suspect he will be with us next season due to a truncated transfer window, clubs spending less and his own poor form.

    Someone might try and get him on the cheap but I doubt Gino will bend to that.

    What will be interesting is if we need to sell to be be able to active in the market - we have very few players worth much who we could lose and raise decent money. Pereyra quite possibly? Gray potentially but not sure where the interest would be and can’t see anyone paying more than £6m and Gino wouldn’t accept that.

    If money is tight, I really can see us cashing in on Suarez. And spending the money on another position we don’t need no doubt. I would expect interest in Sarr but probably only for what we paid for him.
     
  21. reids

    reids Squad Player

    A perfect storm of:

    - Mentality
    - Incredibly poor set-pieces
    - Ridiculous VAR decisions
    - Poor managerial hires
    - Not improving the defence in the summer.

    If any of those were fixed then it's unlikely we'd be in the same situation we're in now.
     
  22. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Reservist

    The two goals Vs Liverpool added to Sarr's value I'd think.
     
  23. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I’d suggest that they would have piqued other clubs interest. But in the current financial situation, and given that he’s still very unproven at the highest level, I really don’t see who offers more than what we paid for him. Yes, big potential for him to be worth more but we’d want to see profit - so how much? Would £60m get him? Maybe, maybe not. But I don’t think anyone offers that for someone with his potential yet limited CV anyway.

    I suspect Sarr was bought with the idea of doubling our money (and potentially more depending on his growth and inflation). Anything less and I doubt we’d sell unless the financial outlook demanded it - certainly not this summer anyway.

    What he originally cost us will be prohibitive for teams trying to sign him IMO. If he’d cost us £12m, we’d be wide open for bids and a profit. £40m is already prohibitive.
     
  24. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Reservist

    I don't think we'll sell him either

    We'll see what the circumstances do to prices but I suspect will limit transfer activity and / or depress prices as you say.
     
  25. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Good list; I agree with all of this (QSF? Really?) except for the last point about the defence.

    Our defence are undoubtedly not world beaters and without a doubt we can and should improve there, but we also have the 3rd highest number of home clean sheets after only Burnley and Man City. That shows the potential for a stronger defence is at least there if the teamwork, tactics and work ethic are right. Like you, I think those mental qualities have been lacking this season.

    My take is that the front line has been a much bigger problem than the defence. We simply don't score enough. On top of the lack of goals, having an ineffective attack also puts more pressure on the backline since the ball doesn't stick in the opponent's half as well. Additionally, ineffective strikers also allow opposition defences to be more aggressive as they have to spend less time on defensive duties. Added up, these factors mean that if we were more effective going forward our defenders would be under a lot less (fewer) pressure.

    None of this means we shouldn't improve the defence; obviously I think we should and, assuming we stay up, I think we will. But having said that, I feel we need to get one (ideally two) reliable goalscorers in more than we need to strengthen any other area. We can strengthen the defence as much as we want, but until we have some teeth in attack we're going to continue to be under pressure.
     
  26. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Interesting - didn't know that about the home clean sheets! What's our away clean sheet record like? Staggering that despite that we've conceded the 6th highest amount of goals in the league!
     
  27. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Two, I believe. Not great. Overall Foster has 9 clean sheets for 19/20. This places him 10th overall in terms of PL clean sheets this season. Offensively, we've scored 33. We're in the "relegation zone" for goals scored, only beating Palace (30) and Norwich (26, already relegated).

    Our defence isn't good, but it's "good enough". If our strikers were performing at the same relative level as our defence and keeper, I think we'd be probably be sitting comfortably outside of the relegation spots right now.

    EDIT: picture's worth a thousand words, they say...so here's a picture with words. ;)

    [​IMG]

    The glaring issues here are 1) our away form and 2) our goals scored. Like I said above, our defense isn't good, but it's "good enough".
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
    The Voice of Reason and reids like this.
  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    There’s defo some anomalies in the stats as I think Foster has one of the highest amounts of clean sheets (or some similar stat) too. Or did until recently.
    If it were just this season, I’d tend to agree. But it’s been running for years and years. Not aimed at you - but for me, it falls on deaf ears now when someone agrees we are poor defensively but then follows it with a ‘but...’

    There are no more ‘buts’ - giving the club ‘buts’ is what has allowed them to be so complacent in regards to defensive focus.

    Simply said, it’s not good enough. That’s it.
     
  29. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Except that, assuming your objective is to not get relegated, it is. Five teams conceded more than us....and that's despite us having the offensive effectiveness of a toothless, decrepit elderly cocker spaniel.

    Defensively, we're not good, but we are indeed good enough....unless you have higher expectations than just staying in the division. Given our club's size I personally don't, but YMMV. Goes without saying I'd prefer to see us top half, but we're...what, 18th for income and wage bill? That's a tough ask.

    We certainly can't accuse our forwards of being good enough, though.
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  30. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    But that argument ignores patterns of play. The best attacking teams will get undone with a perennially bad defence. I genuinely believe that if we were more solid at the back, then things would be better going forward with the players we have. Looking at our attacking outlets, there is talent and ability there (with more on loan potentially coming in this summer) - but a lot of them are confidence players and that comes from being in a confident team. And this team can’t be confident because it’s been awful defensively for a long time. Contrast the defensive ability with the attacking ability - there is a huge contrast in my opinion.

    Our attackers have the ability to be better than they are. Our defenders don’t.

    Buy better forwards and I think we would suffer the same fate, perhaps admittedly on a slower scale. But the same fate all the same. But finally buy quality defenders and I bet we’d see better from what we have.
     
    luke_golden likes this.
  31. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I totally agree with you Arakel, I've been saying this for AGES.....

    It's our attack that needs major surgery NOT our defence!!! Although our defence could do with some surgery too, but not as much as our attack needs by a long way!!!
     
  32. a19tgg

    a19tgg Reservist

    Yes completely agree with Arakel as well. Even losing Gerry puts a lot more pressure on our defence, with Sarr on one wing and Gerry on the other it helps occupy both full backs a lot more and takes a lot of pressure of our full backs, who lets face it are better at attacking. Then Deeney always plays if he’s fit, he doesn’t carry a goal threat but more often than not we resort to long ball when he’s on the pitch. That means you’re generally losing the ball 50% of the time putting pressure back on your defence. He’s also slow to get in the box so generally without Gerry you’re looking at Sarr being the only one getting balls in the box which more often than not are cleared by the defender. Just having Gerry and a better, mobile forward to keep the opposition back line occupied would both get us more goals and take pressure off our defence.
     
  33. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    Spurs away. Not getting the pen for the foul on GD plus the awful handball goal being given.
     
  34. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Reservist

    Both Spurs games.

    It's their fault, I knew it...
     
  35. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    Reading this thread is like the end to a Bridge to Far!

    It was Hughes missing from a yard v West Ham
    No, it was the late goal conceded v Villa
    Etc, etc blah blah blah...

    Anyway, we are staying up!
     

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