Urban Speed Limit. What Should It Be?

This is true, you included.

 

My dad's shop closed in 1996. At that time, he and the other community active leaders on the Chamber of Commerce were bemoaning the death of the High Street. In that era, the retailers were at least 50% small businesses owned by locals. Then rents and rates progressed so high that only certain national corporates could afford to work there. Not sure what's happened in the past 10 years, but I think there's a lot more at play in terms of national trends, than simple pedestrianisation etc.

People don't visit a high street like Ricky with the intention of browsing a few shops and buying any significant goods. It's haircuts, houses, charity shops and vapes.

All the parking in the world won't transform the High Street into a hub for fashion, electronics goods etc. It's just the sign of the times.

 

@Keighley is the poster least likely to cause any accidents on the road (if you exclude other drivers deliberately trying to run him over).

 

You're kidding! Sue Ryder, Cancer Research and help the Aged all have boutiques on Ricky High Street - although Halfords closing was a blow to the style conscious Rickmansworth shoppers

 

although I agree with you I would say an Eastern European store near me that seems to sell everything is still really busy. So there must be a demand for things that you can’t buy on AZ

 

Yeah but immigrants buy differently from middle class Ricky patrons. That's why high streets in more diverse areas are a different proposition.

 

I’d like someone to explain the economics as to why the landlords of retail premises seem happy to let them remain empty for ages instead of lowering the rent to allow a small business to afford them.

 

Anyone who buys anything from Amazon is to blame for the death of the high street (me included) we can’t complain about it because we’d all mostly prefer to save a few quid on an item whilst also having it delivered to our door. Even with expensive items the reviews mean you don’t really need to go and look at them in the flesh anymore either, because thousands of people have already done it for you.

Covid helped accelerate it even further, to the point that we were even encouraged to order expensive high ticket items like new cars to our homes, as well as food and takeaways etc, to the point that a lot of people don’t even got out to restaurants anymore, let alone shops.

 

Anyone who buys from Amazon and other online outlets should be congratulated for the death of the high street. Shopping was always a dreadful chore and that is why they have killed the high street. If shopping on the High St was such a great experience, no-one would buy on-line and miss out on all that fun.

 

Yes, I hate shopping as well and haven’t been to actual shops to shop for years (other than food shopping), so it’s no loss from my point of view at all. Just pointing out (as you are) pedestrianisation is in no way to blame for it, we all are, because it’s what we mostly all wanted.

 

“We” being (mainly) a bunch of middle-aged blokes on a football forum…

 

I meant we as the human race, I don’t think it’s just us on here keeping Amazon afloat. I’m sure some people still like shopping, but as a species we’ve generally shifted quite a lot away from it.

 

The demographic most likely to hate shopping is…

I’d also say this is a very “Global North “ view too; rather OTT to say that “as a species” we’ve moved away from it. In fact, I’m not even sure it is true of continental Europe.

 

OTT but true .

 

You know this how?

 

The main problem with traditional shopping, although we didn’t appreciate it years ago, was that you can only buy what is in stock. Clothes shopping for instance was often a chore because you had to find not only what you wanted but also in the right size, which meant visiting many shops to get it. Over time, starting with supermarkets, we have demanded that everything is available all the time. With the advent of online shopping that demand is pretty much always now satisfied.

 

You think it's a controversial view to take, that we have moved away from high st shopping to on line shopping ? Let me see if I can find a reference or data I can quote from somewhere on the internet .

 

I’m sorry but greed and lack of service killed shopping for me. It’s become an effort to find a parking space that you invariably have to pay for, to walk into a soulless store where you are greeted as if they don’t want you to be there, to search for a product that’s not in your size or colour. I get the death of electrical, clothing and certain food stores but would still go to fresh bakeries, fruit and veg (and not the rubbish from Sainsbury’s), gift shops etc guess they can’t afford the rent

 

Everywhere in the world? That’s my point, it’s not difficult.

 

I don't think he said everywhere in the world. In general as a species we have moved to on line shopping as the tech has enabled this, accelerated by covid of course.
Some items like clothing are not quite there yet but acceptable if you're prepared with the hassle of sending back which Mrs TuT does for 50% of on line clothes purchases.

 

I think that blaming the decline of the high street on the rise of internet shopping, plus Covid, is much too simplistic.

Technologically advanced countries like Japan, Germany and France don't seem to suffer this to nearly the same extent.

Of course it's a factor, but it goes alongside poor urban planning, high business rates, lack of public transport, and the decline of independent shops. Difficulty and cost of parking is no doubt a contributor as well.

 

It might not be 100% of the cause but it's clearly a major factor wouldn't you agree ? I know plenty of people of my parents age who didn't trust the internet pre-covid and now happily order food and other stuff online.

 

Even returns aren’t that much of a hassle nowadays compared to what they used to be. There are some lockers up the road from us that are a short walk that take most of them. Like Mrs Tut I think fro most people now it’s just common practice to buy loads of stuff with the intention of sending a lot of it back.

 

It's a factor. But I'm not convinced it is the primary factor.

 

I think the empty shops have more to do with high business rates than high rents charged by landlords - although I'm sure that doesn't help.

 

Surely it can only be the primary factor? Amazon’s revenue in the UK in 2022 was £24 BILLION pounds, that’s an awful lot of money, and money that would’ve been spent on the high street before internet shopping, and they’re just one retailer (albeit a big one).

 

So why do we not see the same degree of decline in high street shopping in other countries? They have Amazon too.

 

I believe it is all the result of Edwards disgraceful pre-season.

 

Exactly! Because they don't close their high streets to cars

 

The urban speed limit should be appropriate for the road. Having a blanket limit is not particulary clever however broadly a default 30 is OK in built up areas as a starting point. I would say outside schools etc and maybe Cul de Sacs then 20mph is more sensible. There are also roads where 40 or even 50 is more apprpriate however. Placing too low a speed limit or traffice calming measures in main access routes can cause rat runs in other mainly residential roads which itself causes issues. Eastcote is a prime example where they've dropped the limit to 20 and added additional pedestrian crossing zones. This has created issues in the side roads and also people spedding in the service roads with people queue jumping.

Cars are tuned and geared for 30/70. Anyone suggesting speed reductions on the grounds of the environment, doesn't quite understand the science.
Traffic calming measures like humps & width restrictions are expensive, provide an extra weak point for maintenance and can cause issues for emergency vechicles. These should be removed and replaced by cameras.
Low traffic areas push the traffic elsewhere cause people to have longer journeys and hence produces more pollution.

Very few people get in their cars for fun, they have to go somewhere and making it difficult or more expensive to do so just has knock on effects elsewhere. If you make it quick and easy for someone to get to where then need to go, you'll reduce polluition and accidents.

My biggest bug bear however is with on-street parking and the congestion and safety issues this causes especially in the MeisterManor area. Planning permissions should be restricted by having one off street parking place per bedroom. Converting garages to habitable rooms or adding extra bedrooms to houses, just concentrates the population into ever smaller sections of an area with little thought to additional parking requirements and provision of other services. To fix this I would bin off stamp duty for 1st homes. Make it cheaper for people to move, to trade up to bigger housing, freeing up housing at the lower end and making it easier for people to get on the ladder. The knock on to the economy for diy decorating furniture etc will be good. Planning for extensions should be much harder to obtain, planning for new accomodation should be easier as long as the supporting infrastructure is suitable or will be upgraded as part of the development.

 

Rates and also costs of parking. Hillingdon has a good 30mins free and discounts for longer policy for residents which ahs seemed to help.
Some shops don't help themselves though. A high street retailer can't compete on cost but can offer personal service, an ability to actually see the products or try them on. When you rock up to a shop and get an uniterested/unhelpfull staff, closed changing rooms or lack of stock to doesn't help it retaining the business when on-line companies offer it cheaper with free or cheap returns.

I wonder if limiting the number of returns or making a restocking charge (as long as the goods are otherwise perfect) mandatory would assist.

 

I agree that these are important factors, as I pointed out above.

This might be a generalisation, but I feel the uninterested/unhelpful staff are less likely to exist in independent retailers, which are much more common in Europe than here.

 

Business rates are based on the national rental value of the property at a fixed point in time so high rents are a factor

 

Women tend to like to make day of it blokes just want to be in and out

 

I've just spent a long weekend in London and would not be surprised if I get some speeding tickets in the post from 20mph zones!!!

It is so difficult to know if you are even in a 20mph zone as the signage is so bad and it is dangerous as you are spending more time trying to spot the inadequate signage than watching the road.

Quite frankly it is a ridiculously low speed limit, as you are constantly trying to spot the speed limit signs rather than keeping an eye on the road, furthermore if you hit a very slight incline in the road it is so easy to slip over the limit even with your foot off the accelerator, in fact you quite often have to use the break to in order to slow down.

I see that just today Wales have conceded that 20mph speed limit is not viable and will be going back to 30mph!!!

Take note Mr Khan and do the same as Wales!!!