Watford Fc 1-0 Middlesbrough - 11/09/2020

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Steve Leo Beleck, Sep 5, 2020.

  1. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    We don't need to do this as we have the best scouting network in the world already.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  2. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    We've had Djibril Fandje Toure from Guinea (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fandje-toure/profil/spieler/543533) on trial at the club recently and I've seen rumours, although they're not exactly solid, of interest in Nigerian Ibrahim Sunusi (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ibrahim-sunusi/profil/spieler/672502).

    We also have Kwasi Sibo (Ghana) out on loan (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kwasi-sibo/profil/spieler/538006) though we picked him up from the Armenian top division.
     
  3. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    They will play in Spain in some Tercera club. We will be reminded by your dear self or Avispon of what they are up to now and then. And three years we will be told they have been sold to some other club. Magnificent business all round.

    I am still amazed why they do not focus more on the River Plate area of Uruguay and Argentina. Plenty of talented players that are not expensive compared to Brazil.


    Get him to Udine and then to us for instance. Shambolic efforts all around from Flip Floppo and the scouts.
     
  4. reids

    reids First Team

    Yeah, the Pozzos definitely have previous in Africa (with Asamoah Gyan being plucked from Ghana as well) but I don't think their operation is huge there.
     
  5. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    I posted something about the club investing time in the Caribbean last year too, taking an interest and having a physical presence at some of the Soccer Schools/Academies out there.
     
  6. reids

    reids First Team

    Yeah I think it's a necessity to move into new markets. It's no coincidence that these are the sort of markets that Man City have been making moves on with their club network:

    As well as clubs in traditional markets such as Belgium, France, Spain they've hit some more untraditional markets that could prove huge in the future:

    MLS and A-League in Australia are 2 - football is booming in popularity in those countries, they can provide great facilities and the size of the countries mean the quality of player coming out of those countries will likely increase further down the line. You don't need to spend huge sums to stay competitive and it won't be hard for any decent players to get capped to help with work permits. Even if one player from either of these 2 teams ends up playing regular first team football for City at some point in the next 15 years it'll be worth the investment.

    Clubs in India and China are also speculative purchases but are relying on the populations of each country to generate players. It's no secret that China have been pumping ridiculous amounts of money into their domestic game over the past 5 years or so, and with the population China has, it's bound to create a superstar or 2 in the future (maybe even becoming a more traditional football market even). Same with India, huge population although suffers from bad facilities and not being the main sport in the country, although football is definitely chipping away at those other sports.

    Finally they're targeting potentially undervalued markets now with their clubs in Uruguay and Japan. A glance at the players called up to the national team in Japan over the last 12 months shows players in La Liga, PL, Serie A and Bundesliga so they're already creating talented players so having a club in Japan is certainly a good idea. Same with Uruguay, half the national team is plying their trade in the top European teams and gives them a base in South America which is obviously a hot-spot.

    Any CFG future acquisition will likely fall into one of these 3 markets: Traditional, future growth or undervalued currently. Whilst it's obviously impossible to match what CFG are doing, there's the possibility of being clever about it and creating a smaller network of well-run clubs (and there's a few investment groups I know of that are definitely going to be doing this very soon)
     
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  7. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    At the top end of clubs it makes absolute sense to acquire teams in the various regions for player, coach and commercial development and it certainly outstrips anything the Pozzo family have done or could do going forward.

    With that in mind, how do the Pozzo's get that edge over the clubs of a similar size and standing as WFC?
    I presume we still run the camps/soccer schools in America which were set up several years ago and as I mentioned in a previous post, get recommendations/visit similar set-ups around the world which are run independently of actual clubs. I don't know if Udinese still have their facility in South America (Colombia?)

    The Pozzo's seem very hands on types with a relatively limited pool of money so setting up academies throughout the world doesn't seem an obvious option to me. Trying to hoover up quality youth players is also out of the question as top clubs throughout Europe are now spending ridiculous money on 16/17yr olds.

    Do you have any thoughts in general @reids as to how Watford, or clubs similar in size to us, could maintain a steady stream of player trading/development without diverting too much money away from the head of both clubs (Watford & Udinese) to make it viable?
     
  8. reids

    reids First Team

    It's hard to say - but I'd definitely look at striking some partnerships with some of the clubs with the best track record of producing players. For instance Metz in France have a partnership with Generation Foot (one of the best academies in Senegal) for the last 20 years. It's landed them Papiss Cisse (ex Newcastle), Diafra Sakho (ex West Ham), along with Mane and our Sarr. They can't be paying a huge amount and although it's not a constant source of talent but it's landed them some incredible players. If you can land 2 or so similar partnerships then suddenly that talent pipeline looks a bit better. A good idea is to always look at what the smart clubs are doing - for instance Brentford are incredibly smart and focus a lot on the lower leagues in England which is something I think we should also be expanding on - the amount of players coming from League 1 or below who are now breaking into the PL is huge: Watkins, Ampadu, Toney, Branthwaite etc so the talent is definitely there. Likewise creating a partnership with a L1/L2 team where we can send players to develop would also be a good idea.

    Another thing I've heard clubs doing is striking a deal with countries FA's for access to their youth team scouting data (CFG did this with Ghana). Doing this for undervalued nations (personally I'd go for some of the Eastern European countries) could prove useful.

    On the pitch you can look at marginal gains to help as well, gonna bang that set-piece drum again but a good set-piece coach would likely cost less than 50k a year and would get goals.
     
    The Recluse and luke_golden like this.
  9. Crezzy95

    Crezzy95 First Year Pro

    Encouraging to see that we're actually practicing set pieces, we looked dangerous from them! The Championship is a tough league & set pieces could be key to winning games by the odd goal. The head coach can only do so much but we looked organised & the clean sheet reflects that. Be interesting to see the comings & goings over the next month, I'd be very surprised if we saw that starting line-up more than a handful of times this season.
     
  10. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Where have they said the squad will built around Pervis and Suarez?
     
  11. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    They could start by checking out anybody with the family name Barnes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  12. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Recruiting from West Africa might be enhanced by concentrating on the countries which have English as the leading foreign language:
    Ghana, Sierra Leone, Nigeria and The Gambia. Young men might be more easily tempted far from home if they can speak the language.
    Small margins, of course.
     
  13. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    And all this despite EPPP. Really exposes EPPP for the joke rich-get-richer scheme it is.
     
  14. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    I'd never even contemplated the idea of data sharing with the FA's of countries. Talk about a short cut!

    I like the idea of partnerships with already successfully producing clubs but I'd imagine that will be a crowded market and difficult to get in on cheaply, as would established academies in Africa, Eastern Europe or wherever. That's not to say it shouldn't be considered if the club are looking at alternative avenues though.

    And I've always imagined striking a partnership with a club already with league status would be problematic if the partner club has any kind of success through promotion. My thoughts on that would be to try and establish similar deals with local non-league sides. Granted it's not a high level of football but part of a young players development is playing competitive games. It could help an 18-yr old as a first step.

    With that in mind I've read St. Albans have started an academy this season with two age groups as a starting point, U16s & U18s.
    https://www.stalbanscityfc.com/academy-launches-for-the-new-season/
    Dean Austin is the main man there and our U23s already play at Clarence Park ... I wonder if there's an opportunity there right on the doorstep?

    Thank you for the detailed reply. I really think established independent academies is where the club will/are looking first of all but it will be interesting if they invest time & money in something they have more control over. Cheers Reids.
     
    reids likes this.
  15. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    This St Albans academy has been going for a number of years now and is tied in with Oaklands college. This EJA team is top of the range grassroots/players released by clubs AFAIAA. Whilst a late developer or someone who has slipped through the net could be uncovered it is more likely players who "make it" will be of a Conference south standard as the pro clubs hoovered up the talent of any age group at a very young age .
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  16. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Pedro looked very impressive. Quina justified why no manager has wanted to give him any real game time so far.
     
  17. reids

    reids First Team

    Oh definitely! Another thought i've just had (although not really relevant to Watford) is to partner with a recruitment company. I've started working for a company that focuses on helping clubs with their scouting and think their model will have a huge impact on traditional scouting in the future. They have clients in the Championship, League 1, League 2, SPL and have done work for various others. Since they're working for multiple clubs it means any player that gets scouted and is liked potentially has a role at one of their clubs. So for instance say they scout a striker but think his level is probably League 1 at best then he'd get recommended to the L1 + L2 team if he fits the player profile that they're after (which saves the Championship + SPL scouts time scouting him). Also as they're in close contact with their clubs they can be aware of any potential loan opportunities that could help boost the club, which basically forms a loose informal club network between all their clients. They explained it in a bit better detail than I have here: https://mrktinsights.com/index.php/2020/05/20/multi-club-networks/
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  18. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    I wonder if they've streamlined or modified the way they're working because in the link I provided it talks of 'the inaugural members of the academy'?

    https://www.stalbanscityfc.com/academy-launches-for-the-new-season/
     
  19. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    That makes for very interesting reading and an intriguing direction for smaller clubs or those not willing/able to spend fortunes on scouting to take. The resources saved and the lack of having to replace scouts for any reason is removed with having everything centralised by MRKTInsights. Brilliant.

    It really could make player recruitment a more slick and organised operation for individual clubs.

    The cynic in me thinks more influential clubs could muscle into the process by buying information before anyone else has access but I can't see too many downsides generally. You've made a smart move getting involved, an excellent decision.

    I'm not sure which thread it was in, but there was mention made of a friendly way of working between Napoli's owner and the Pozzo's. I don't think it would just mean trading players at mates rates, instead using transfers to third parties to help create pathways for Udine/Watford/Napoli players elsewhere. A manipulation, in a small way, of the transfer market. I guess that goes on between lots of organisations but I'm too naive to know how the transfer market really works.

    Thanks, again, for the link and opening my eyes a little further.
     
    reids likes this.
  20. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    I believe it is a rebrand or upgrade on what they had going anyway.
    But it does seem that there will be a pathway for players which was lacking before.
    Which can only be a good thing .
     
  21. reids

    reids First Team

    Interesting piece on Mali I just read: https://firsttimefinish.co.uk/2020/10/12/rising-nations-mali-latest-generation-the-world-cup/ Apparently Doucoure has switched his nationality and will be representing them going forward as well. Interesting that 7 out the national team all came from the same academy in Mali!
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  22. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

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