Marco Silva Tapping Up Complaint

You've won sod all since 1994 - get real!

 

I was.

 

But by wiping out a large part of the labour force, the Black Death did lead to an increase in income for the survivors. Look on the bright side, I say.

 

No!

Incomes rose hugely over the couple of generations after the BD.

Unsurprisingly, attempts were made to restrict this but market forces won out.

Actually, the most profound impact was to cause the feudal system to unravel. Labour was in demand &, in an agricultural society, landowners had little option but to offer better terms.

See John Hatcher for a more authoritative view.

 

The Black Death bubo started as a mild irritation to the armpit or groin, soon followed by swelling.

Vomiting & decay of the flesh around the extremities would often follow.

In the gravest cases, extreme trolling would result in systemic shutdown.

 

Pacharan hits the Proustian bullseye for me.

Ready, willing & able to operate in the Spanish marketplace in the 80s.

In those days, I was simply Rookery. No Dad involved.

BH, bravo for your bootlegging instincts. Diageo have enough money & you must have good access to emergency medical support if your potion ends up being a tad poisonous.

The auto appendicectomy reference was a nod to Python.

In one of their books, Auto Appendicectomy on the Piccadilly Line was mentioned.

Incision at Gunnersbury, swabbing at Ravenscourt Park & so forth.

 

Glad to hear it HappyHornet24 otherwise your poor kids may be confused by the mockery and irony of your user name.
I too have to live in the real world with my kids, like today watching real life dramas like Deadpool 2 a typical example

(The Black Death apparently killed about 25 million over centuries.
Just to cheer everyone up the worst killers were human - the Godless atheist and communist regimes of Hitler, Mao and Stalin, apparently 50-80million, 45 million and 25 million respectively).

And all we have to worry about is Brexit and how slowly we can get to 40 points and whether the Blue Plague can be defeated.
(And whether we can make a real Pimms and how the hell oxbow lakes are formed of course)

 

Of course back in those days, trolling involved hiding under a bridge, before jumping out and threatening to gobble people up. Today, with the introduction of the internet, trolling is more about jumping into online conversations with the intention of taking them dangerously off topic. For these modern trolls, there is no gobbling, ever.

 

I hadn’t even considered gobbling or goblins.

Mods, where do I find the Forum Safe Place?

 

History is bunk...

 

Teaching your kids is one of the most satisfying things a parent can do.

Teaching someone else’s kids maybe one of the most frustrating things.

My older son sits his Finals this week.

Linguistics.

Incomprehensible.

To me at least.

The current approach to education seems very geared to passing exams. And the way to pass exams is to regurgitate what they want. Original thought is surplus to requirements.

Btw, has the feudal system broken down?

From my brief forays into the Politics section, this seems in doubt.

 

Hi everyone.

I’m a blue. But not here to “WUM” like blue plague has been.

I’ve been reading the thread and thought I’d weigh in a bit.
We aren’t the biggest club, but we are a big club in terms of history and standing within the game in terms of our achievements/records etc. The last 30 years have been some of the worst years in our history in terms of management of the club and financial ability. However, and the majority on our forum would agree, we strive to be back at the top and be seen as a big club, which we have spent much of our history as, which is why we talk like we are. I mean, it’s our own forum, and you big your own team up.
Yes, we aren’t part of the “sky 6” and we talk about the “top 7” but in the last 15 years, we have finished in the top 7, ten times. (From Moyes first full season in charge). So we do have some right to say that.

Regarding Silva. We may have done something wrong, as you may have done when he was at Hull (none of us actually know what specific evidence either side has until it all gets sorted) but for us, this is a new era, and for a lot of our supporters (myself included) who weren’t around for the 80s, we have been treated like this our whole lives, and for once, we are the ones throwing the money around and being a bit snide. Everton have been too “nice” for so long so we are just enjoying it. Admittedly, it’s not making us come across great, but we aren’t the first club to do it (city, Chelsea both did when they got taken over). We just like having an owner willing to invest and has the means to, unlike kenwright who has held us back for so long with his “love for the club”.

And actually, a lot of our fans aren’t particularly bothered by Silva and are a bit underwhelmed by it all. That fact we had to stomach Allardyce for the last 6 months should be punishment enough for us. If Silva was always the plan, this should have been dealt with a long time ago not dragged out like this.

 

You mean aside from the Hull chairman publicly confirming he had a release clause and that we weren't even the first club talking to him, right?

 

Hello buddy,

Thanks for the measured post. I can totally see where you are coming from, things always look different from the outside looking in. We see Moshiri throwing money around like nobodies business but most of it aimlessly and it seems he has no idea how to run a football club sensibly. Sense and money can work together but he seems not to believe that theory. But I can totally understand your fans revelling in it, given the Kenwright years as you say. In contrast, 99% of the abuse we get is about sacking managers - and it’s understandable. But yet no one, opposition fans or media alike, even bother to look at why and thus I think we are probably the team most people would like to see relegated. The likes of Bournemouth get all the praise and we just plod on surviving each season with little fanfare.

However, I must pull you up on a couple of things. Just because you regularly finished 7th, that doesn’t mean you are in some sort of club with the other 6. The ‘Top 7’ is not a thing and never has been. The fans on your forum talk like history is the be all and end all but in the modern game, you are only as good as your last season. You are no less susceptible to what has happened to Aston Villa, Sunderland or Leeds than anyone else.

No WFC fan has debated you have a richer history than us, a bigger fan base or more pulling power. But this season you start as our equals and nothing more or nothing less. For all your big transfer fees and wages, you have a squad or management no better than our own. Since we have been back in the PL we have taken many points of you - too many I’d say for a team many of your fans believe are ‘insignificant and tinpot’.

And there is no defence for tapping up. If we did it to get Silva, then we are bang to rights. But there is plenty of stories around from that time to suggest we acted above board and Hull said nothing. It is not for you to act on their behalf. If they have a problem with how we acted, they should have said so. They didn’t. So that leads me to believe we are likely good there. But what Everton fans aren’t listening to, even when being told is this - our owner is a Harvard educated businessman. He has been in the courtroom more times than most and there is absolutely no way he has raised this complaint officially without grounds. Pettiness isn’t his style. This issue was raised a long time ago.

You will hire Silva and this messy issue will die away. But rest assured, you are extremely likely to be found guilty of wrongdoing and his and your club’s reputation, will take a battering.

You may be happy that you are finally acting like you are one of the big boys. But at what cost to your reputation? And I dare say this won’t see you accepted by the others as a big club but rather more, it will push you further away from that objective.

 

If I complain endlessly about ITK_****, would she be banned?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe there is a top 7. However, before Spurs were consistently top 4/6, it was always them and us being predicted to get 6th. They have moved ahead whereas we got stuck, and even when we finished 4th, Sky would still put graphics up of the race for the top 4, and not include us, even when we were in the top 4 at the time. We have a frustration that we are ignored and told to get back in our place when we are probably best placed and closer to breaking the top 6 then most others (barring a bad season every now and again). Martinez got us our record points total a couple of years ago which would have been enough points for the top 4 in the majority of seasons, we aren’t that far.

You have taken points off us, I’m not denying that. But we took points off city this year, and beat them 4 nil last season. I don’t believe you are tinpot or insignificant But saying this season we are now equals is a bit moot. As that’s like saying that united didn’t win anything and we are their equals going into next season. We aren’t. Like you aren’t. We were 8th this season, so next season we go in in the company of Burnley and Leicester realistically. I get what you are saying, but our squad is better, which is why we are above, that’s the point of the league, to place each club according to their ability that season but then that leads into the next season usually, especially when clubs finish consistently around the same position.

We will most likely be found guilty, but I can see it being dealt with out of court, with an apology and a few mill compensation. The PL won’t want it to go further. Your owner is a harvard lawyer yes, but do you not also think that moshiri will have a team of Harvard lawyers as well? He may have made a few mistakes since taking us over, but he is no fool, he wouldn’t be a billionaire if he was. The issue for both clubs is that it could consume them for a long time, and neither club needs that publicity, because it would undoubtedly lead to mud slinging and defamation. Like you say, you don’t think your owner would make a complain without grounds to do so, but I don’t believe the Everton board as a whole are stupid enough to come back with something without concrete evidence either. Yes, that is hulls issue, however, it is also silvas issue, and so it does affect us. From our point of view, the fact that 6months on, it’s only just being ramped when we are looking to sign him, makes it seem like a way out of paying compo to him etc and that the issue is with Silva for downing tools, which doesn’t necessarily imply we tapped up, just that he wanted to leave. Personally I don’t particularly want him and would rather not deal with all this, I didn’t want him in November either.

Our reputation will take a battering, but so did city’s when they started flashing the cash, as did Chelsea’s. United always take a battering, as do liverpool. But people forget and move on. Players and managers still sign for the club.

 

The peasants are always revolting..
Unless of course there is a royal wedding when they feign celebration as an excuse to get pissed..

 

‘Unless we learn from History it is destined to repeat itself .....’
.. or something, wise words from someone.

Gino please note.

 

Got a court case coming up in a few weeks. Got done for armed robbery at the Kwik-e-mart. However I recently found out the owner, this guy called Apu, did an armed robbery 6 months ago, so thats me off the hook.

 

Thanks for the reply.

I don't believe us saying we are your equals next season is moot. The examples you have given don't really stand up for me...Martinez did get you close. But subsequent managers have had you far closer to mid table and ourselves than anywhere near the Top 4. You beating City has nothing to do with it because they are winning a trophy in most seasons and qualifying for the CL. The same with United - so no, your results against them aren't really as relevant as ours against you.

However, we digress. This isn't about the size of Everton in comparison to us. You're a bigger club, we get that. We just think you are far nearer being our equivalents than anyone in the Top 6. I can appreciate Moshiri is trying to get you nearer to them but it seems he's making a ham-fisted attempt of it so far.

One thing I can promise you - it may be a matter of honour for our owner to not being paying Silva his compensation but it certainly isn't a money saving scheme. £750k is peanuts these days.

I suspect Moshiri will believe the ends will justify the means. Back in November if you told him that you'd eventually get Silva in May the following year, have to pay an out of court settlement and damages and apologise for wrongdoing and be known as a club that taps up managers, he'd still have done it rather than back off. Seems to be the shape of the man. Every club wants a billionaire owner who throws cash about - but I think you've got a dud here and it may well end in tears.

 

Understand a lot of that, but the bit I've highlighted in bold is a bit naive IMO - nobody is going to care. The only people who will are Watford fans, and if you need to have that as a victory, then that's fine, but to suggest Everton's reputation in the eyes of the rest of the world will change even a little bit is really only a reflection of your position in the whole thing. Everton disrupted your season and club and that would certainly annoy me if I were in your shoes. Do you really think anyone else is going to care?

In the early Man City money days, they acted disgracefully in tapping up and unsettling Joleon Lescott while he was an Everton player. Even led to him putting in a scandalous performance in an opening day game vs Arsenal which eventually led to us having to sell him. Annoyed us for years, but nobody else cared. Has that episode really stopped Man City becoming an elite club?

The "top 7" isn't a thing, there are 6 clubs who compete with each other and then there's the rest. Trying to be objective about it, Everton are about the 7th biggest club in the country when history, fanbase, modern record are taken into account. I actually don't think you'd find too many Everton fans arguing anything else - all we are trying to do is close the gap on the top 6 so that we can compete with them rather than being the best of the rest, which is largely what we've been for the last 15 years or so. I think us having the temerity to try and do this annoys a lot of people, but I'd much rather we were doing what we're doing now (even allowing for some very costly mistakes) than constantly punch above our financial weight as we had to do before Moshiri arrived.

Of course Everton are guilty on this incident, but does anyone really think they're going to put their hands in the air and agree to stump up any amount of cash that Watford ask for? They'll go through the motions and eventually pay far less than they offered Watford in November, at this point you'll see it as a victory and rejoice at the triumphant article in The Watford Gazette, meanwhile after Henry Winter has written a couple of lines about the brilliant business acumen of Pozzo et al, the wider footballing world will forget it ever happened. Imagine most of you will take exception to this, but I'd say the same regardless of who this story involved

 

1995

It's been long enough without you adding more years to it

 

'An Inspector Calls' is a fine work.
Perhaps he will call at Goodison Park in this modern day morality tale?

 

I agree we are closer to you in terms of size of club at the moment, however I do also believe that we are more consistently seen as being the best of the rest, and most likely candidates for getting that 7th spot. I mean, we came 8th this year with the least shots in the league or something and the worst football I’ve watched in my life. Since Martinez, we have finished 7th and 8th. Martinez had 2 awful seasons I saw awful, but they were still 11th, after his incredible first season. But I do think we will close that gap considerably over the coming years, especially with a new setup with a proper DoF and not steve Walsh who is a glorified scout.

But yes, we digress.

It most likely is honour and principle, which are great to have, Everton have put on a face of honour and principle for years, but honestly, in my opinion, it doesn’t get you anywhere. The teams that win and are at the top, are snide and are involved with the worst people in football, eg Raiola (who we are now trying to work with). I don’t agree with it and wish it wasn’t like that, but my opinion doesn’t count for nothing. Football is a game of money. Those with more, get away with things and go on to win. It’s wrong but that’s how it is nowadays.

We will pay up, probably 3 mill, and get a slap on the wrist, but we have already being looked at in the Panama papers and bbc investigations etc, and nothing really happens and no one really cares. Money talks.

 

Not much there I disagree with.

My point is not so much as to how the footballing public will see you. But if there is an admittance of guilt (or an apology which everyone will know amounts to the same), then it will make other club and owners far more wary when dealing with Mr Moshiri - in the short-term certainly. Football fans of other clubs will disregard the news pretty quickly and it will ocasssionaly pop up as a stick to beat you with when you are in dispute with fans of other clubs about transfers or something or other. But it will largely only be remembered by those involved, I agree.

And just in modern PL times, I’d agree you would be part of the Top 7 if there were such a thing. But when all things are considered, I would say Leeds, WHU and perhaps a few others are bigger. But the reality is there is a Top 6 who are routinely at the top. I appreciate you wanting to jump the gap but at present you are far closer the other 13 than those 6.

 

Two sensible Evertonian posters here. Helps us to also be measured rather than defensive. Everton can claim to be the sixth most successful club in Premiership history. That is a fact on both points earned and average position. However Man City are only not in the top six due to their years out of the Prem and few would deny they are actually now a top six - so that puts Everton seventh.
Everton are very much like Spurs - both clubs with a proud past full of trophies but both blues being outperformed in recent years by their local reds. Spurs have found the manager to move them up a notch or two - but I bet when Pochettino goes they will sink back a bit. Everton need to find that golden manager. I am sure Silva is not the man. His record in the Prem is pretty poor. If I were an Everton fan I would be hoping for someone with a better track record.
I also agree that when the dust settles on this - with an undisclosed out of court settlement from Everton both sides will claim victory and everyone else will just yawn.
For me it is just a shame that Everton ever approached Silva when they did as I would like to have seen if he was really a decent manager or whether he just had a good start that flattered him - we will never know.

 

All this about the "Top 6", what we have to realise is that this is probably only a temporary situation.
It would only take someone to pump large quantities of cash into a club such as Leeds for example, and then they could well be in the top frame.
Remember that Man City where a championship, sleeping giant not so long ago.
Looking forward, Liverpool is a big city, and could well (and does) support two clubs.
Given a new stadium with larger capacity, and good management, then I believe that Everton could also be a top club again.
Not saying that I particularly want them to be, just that I think, given the right circumstances, it is possible that they could be.

 

We will know next season when everton are playing in games with 8 goals a game but we are around 12th.

I don’t particularly want him and think there are plenty of other available managers without the tapping up issues. Apparently our new DoF is in charge of everything other than being head coach, including transfers, playing style and setup throughout the whole club and scouting. I’m hoping with that, he brings in and sets a style that means Silvas defensive issues are sorted without silva having to worry too much about it.