Well what a pile of **** that was how did we get away with a point Bachmann - I haven't been his biggest fan, but credit where credit is due we would have been slaughtered tonight if not for him MOTM Kabasele - Did ok, but nothing to right home about. Sierralta - Looking much more like the player he was in his 1st season with us. Hope is injury is not serious. Cathcart - At fault for their goal IMO, needs to revert to his best position on the bench. Kamara - OK at RB, but would be much better on the left. Looked pissed when substituted and I don't blame him. Cleverly - Sorry but he needs to be benched as he is way past his best, though he does try. Kayembe - Not bad, but not particularly good either. Sema - Tries hard, but another that needs to be on the bench and not a starter. Sarr - Inspired goal and well won penalty, but should never take another penalty for us again. Pedro - A ray of light in a poor team display, but was forced to play too deep. He should have taken the penalty. Dennis - Not at the races today, I think he wants away. WTE - Not on long enough thank god to cause any real problems. Gosling - Don't think he touched the ball yet again this week? Manaj - Not on long enough to really judge, but IMO he seems to have something about him that might come to fruition. Gaspar - Not a wing back IMO as not quick enough, but might be OK as a right back or right centre back. All in all we were **** therefore Edwards needs to come up with a plan B me thinks!!!
As Burnsy mentioned, that's not really a defence. The law says if a player stops an obvious goalscoring opportunity, it's a red card. The only exception to that is if the player has made a genuine attempt to play the ball, which doesn't apply here, as Ajayi got his legs tangled with Sarr's while trying to keep up. Agree with whoever said we should have been up in arms about it. Can't be pushovers in this league and the refs at this level are weak enough to be swayed by big appeals.
Desperately trying to claw some positives from that , I would say we ve now played the best two midields in the division . Louza back soon and hopefully incoming CM will alleviate that glaring issue. Dennis going maybe will force us into a 352 and give us numbers in midfield and free JP from dropping deep duties to concentrate on attack . One massive worry is that Edwards failed to resolved the glaring issue of Sema being exposed constantly. All the fans could see it , the pundits remarked upon it , Steve Bruce and his players saw it as they targeted it from minute 1. Edwards should have picked up on it before the game , during the first half , half time and the second half . Yet no reaction . I would love to hear his explanation because he must be seeing the game on another level to everyone else . I don't understand .
A moment of genius in an otherwise poor performance. Sarr just isn’t good with penalties, though I’m not sure Dennis helped him with his antics before he took it. Trying to nick the ball to take the penalty was about the most Dennis managed all night - dreadful showing from him.
West Brom vs Watford Highlights https://highlightssoccerhd.com/video/west-brom-vs-watford-highlights/
So glad we have another game on Friday, we need to get this game out of the system quickly. Opponents maybe slightly tougher than we would like however.
From google. ‘Double jeopardy’ rule which prevents two punishments of the player being sent-off and a penalty being given if it’s an accidental challenge. Don’t know how official that is, but was how I interpreted it as to.
I don't think Burnley are all that but Cullen will run the game if we start Cleverley and Kayembe as a two again.
From IFAB Laws of the Game 2022/23 Denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity (DOGSO): Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off. No attempt to play the ball, he wasn't close enough to do so anyway, so had to be a red. And even if Tim Robinson had (incorrectly) interpreted Ajayi's action as an attempt for the ball, he still should have been booked, which he wasn't! Just absolutely horrendous refereeing, and so so basic.
The crazy thing about it is that, of course, it means that as a referee he literally doesn't know/understand the rules of the game, so how can he be said to be fulfilling his professional duty, or indeed capable of being in that position? It's so stark it's almost breathtaking.
Great result! We played absolutely crap against one of the best teams in the league at their stadium and they didn’t lose. Truth is we could have won playing like that if Sarr wasn’t on the pens. Says more about how bad West Brom were than how bad we were and we were atrocious. Hopefully we don’t play like that ever again all season. Just a slight improvement on tonight’s performance and we wipe the floor against most teams. Rob Edwards does need to learn though. Cleverley’s legs have gone. He cannot start another game. It is detrimental to the team and immediately makes us start a man down. Sema starting on the left also makes a man down. With Sema and Cleverley in the starting line up, it will constantly be 9vs11 every game. At HT Edwards should have made tactical changes. Gaspar needed to come on for Sema, so Kamara could be on the left. Clevs needed to be dragged off and captain from the dugout. Gosling needed to be on in his place. Everyone could see it. Kamara has to play on the left and Gaspar must start on Friday if we haven’t signed a RWB by then. Gosling needs to come in for Cleverley, at least he offers a goal threat going forward. Bachmann Kaba Sierralta Cathcart Gaspar Kayembe Gosling Kamara Pedro Sarr Dennis must be the team starting on Friday. Anything else is unacceptable. Gino, Dux and Giaretta have zero excuses to not sign a RWB, LCB, and one if not two CM’s. Bare minimum is 3 quality signings. Failure to do so will result in us just making the play-offs, and that’s only if we manage to keep Sarr and Dennis. Without them, we will finish between 8th-12th. 4 points from 2 promotion rivals and I will take that. Beat Burnley on Friday and it’s been a great start to the season with a very unbalanced squad, yet again.
Added to that, he has 3 qualified officials in his ear, who can give him advice, let him know if he's cocked up, and give an alternative view. And if he's forgotten, or made a mistake, he's allowed to fix it if play hasn't restarted! As you say, incredible that it's happened. The only other possibility I can think of that somehow the refereeing team have made the decision that Sarr's final touch was heavy enough to make it not a clear goalscoring opportunity. Having watched it back again just now that would be ********, as he's 7 yards out, with the ball a yard away from him, but that's all I can think of.
Edwards honestly baffled me tonight. I can understand playing Kamara out of position if we don't have a RWB. Ok, fine. Not ideal, but I get it. But when we bring a RWB off the bench and take off our out of position LWB, rather than take off the non-defender filling the LWB role, I can't get my head around it. Sema was getting killed down that side; in part that was Dennis' fault for not helping out more, but if you're going to leave someone down our flank to defend alone, surely the natural LWB who is good at the role is the man for the job? Turned it around in mind head a number of times and I just can't work it out. Sema was the obvious, obvious sub....except to Edwards. Just plain odd and not at all reassuring.
We were shocking tonight, zero pressing, barely strung 5 passes together all game, a moment of magic gained us a point, a moment of pure toss cost of us all 3. In desperate need of an energetic decent midfielder is desperately needed if we magically keep ahold of Dennis and Sarr, if (and when inevitably) one of them goes then I think we’ll still be challenging for promotion regardless as a midfield 3 will be much better than having 2 currently chasing shadows. West Brom were miles better than I expected them to be but not sure if that’s because we gave them so much space and time to do as they pleased or if they’re actually a decent team. Bachmann kept us in it first half, had very little to do in all honesty second half except actually come for a few crosses which made a nice change. Rest of the back line, Cathcart is clearly uncomfortable on the left and should’ve done much more to help Sema who was massively overran but did a decent enough job in my opinion against arguably one of the better right hand sides in the division in Furlong and Wallace, personally would’ve moved him into midfield and put Kamara at left back. Sierralta, as you’d expect from him, Kabasele, unfortunately, as you’d expect from him, loves the club but a bit soft and needs to learn how to take a throw in, would bench him for a new left sided centre back and shift Cathcart to the right. Kamara should never play on the right again. Midfield just completely overran, Kayembe was much improved second half and you know what you’ll get with Cleverley, lots of running around but always half a yard behind play, gave plenty of meaningless free kicks away even if some seemed incredibly soft considering what the ref let West Brom get away with. Should be a sub who helps see a game out rather than a starter. Very little to say about up top seeing as they saw very little of the game, Sarr, outrageous goal and weak as wet paper penalty aside didn’t do a great deal, Pedro was busy but was kept out the game mainly by Ajayi (who I thought was fantastic all game but should’ve been sent off, not clued up on the rules so feel free to correct me) and Dennis had an absolute mare, looked to me like he was trying but just wasn’t going his way and should’ve gone off after 60 mins. Was reassuring to hear Edwards say afterwards we were not at the races and that improvements have to be made. But he needs to make subs earlier and the correct ones as well. How we fluked a point out of that one I don’t know, but we have and to be on 4 points out of our first 2 tough fixtures is something to be positive about. Even a point on Friday I’ll still be pleased about. But improvements from tonight must be made. And most importantly, still above scum in the table.
Just got back from the game tonight. Apart from a moment of brilliance that was a pretty lacklustre display, the only real positive I can take is that we showed a bit of spirit to get a point when we deserved nothing. Will do some player ratings. Bachmann 9.5/10. My MOTM. Arguably had his best performance in a Watford shirt tonight, made some outstanding saves & was rightly p***** oft at what was going on in front of him. Kamara 7/10. Pretty solid display. Surprised he got subbed off. Cathcart 6.5/10. Decent enough performance but the weakest of the back 3 imo. Sierralta 7/10. Won most of his aerial duels & dealt with a few dangerous crosses. Kabasele 7.5/10. Had a good game making some great last ditch tackles. Sema 6/10. Clearly isn't a wing back but he huffed & puffed, got caught out of position a few times. Cleverley 5/10. Another poor performance, ran around alot but gave the ball away often & was nearly at fault for a goal. Kayembe 6.5/10. No thrills but thought he did a solid job tonight. Pedro 7.5/10. Worked hard & showed some sublime bits of skill. Sarr 7/10. The goal was sheer quality. Won the penalty but the pen he took was a shocker. Dennis 4/10. Woeful performance.
Eh? What game were you watching? West Brom were not bad in the slightest, ok we missed a pen and could’ve won, but they could’ve also won the game 5 times over, do you expect us to be scoring goals from inside our own half every week?
i respect you for going but was your viewpoint obstructed? Nobody apart from Bachman and Pedro deserve anything over 5/6 out of 10 with a liberal dose of 3/4 out of 10 handed out to many
I think we'dve done better if this was the first game of the season. The problem was Bruce saw the SU game and knew how to counteract us. There are plenty of benefits to playing with wing backs in the champo but if it means u only have 2 in midfield youre shooting yourself in the foot. With Sarr we are rightly playing with 3 attackers but in the champo u need 3 in midfield. So with Sarr u go 433 which is what led to our amazing run to promotuon 2 years ago OR if Sarr leaves u go 532 like our previous promotion. But playing 3421 3412 343 or whatever u wanna call it, is gonna cause too many problems in midfield in the champo.
Having slept on it, our performance was summed up by Sarrs performance and goal. Pedro's trying a headed dribble into the box, Dennis trying to nutmeg everyone. We had a fancy showreel of flicks and tricks from the Sheff Utd game and the commentator last night said our front three were "free to interchange and wander where they like". We'll score some great goals, but we won't score lots of goals and we won't dominate the ball, because 7/10 the flick or nutmeg or outrageous shot will not work and they don't do the dirty donkey work. The quicker Sarr and Dennis move on the better imo.
Generally the numerous crosses and dangerous balls into the box were well handled by the back three. And Bachmann. Putting someone in with our midfield 2 would probably have stopped them freely getting the ball to width and also getting a cross delivered.
I think if it looks like the defender has attempted to play the ball then they don't get sent off but that is quite subjective again and did their guy do that last night? Probably be a different decision with another ref in another game...
Typical Watfordy Championship effort really. In the Prem that's a battering. In the Championship it's a scrappy point. Hard to take any other positives other than Bachmann really. Gino and Scott need to give Rob a proper midfielder and rwb for this formation to work. Let's hope they do.
I think we got away with that - big time - even against the Southamptons and Brightons of the world that would’ve been a bloodbath. How wasteful are WBA? Edwards took far too long to make his changes yesterday and I was texting with a mate saying it almost felt like he was waiting for them score again. Sarr should be nowhere near penalties again - would’ve had Pedro take it. Looked up for it and put a massive shift in. Kayembe and Cleverley in the middle DOES NOT WORK. I respect Cleverley for all of the hard work and effort he’s put in over time, and he seems like a decent guy, but he can’t manage 90 minutes now. Agree with others that we’ve painted ourselves into a corner naming him captain. Gaspar looked pretty comfortable to me when he came on which is a plus. Let’s hope we’ve got ‘the bad performance’ out of the way now and that we’ll look much better with 2-3 changes on Friday night.
The worrying thing is that Bruce has just provided a blueprint for every team if we continue to set up the same way with the same personnel. Go man to man on us from our goal kicks and defensive throw ins and we have to kick it long as we can't pass through the pitch. We then immediately give the ball back and it doesn't give our wing backs any time to get higher up so we end up with a back five penned in with Kayembe and Cleverley just in front of them and the three attackers out of the game as they've just lost another header. Overload our wing backs and just chuck crosses into the box at will, rinse and repeat. And our most dominant centre back in the air went off injured.
Having slept on it Bachman was brilliant Edward's is a tactical fool Our defense is **** Our midfield is non existent West Brom must be wondering how they didnt win . With that set up we will not get promoted. Head of recruitment should be shot . Doe that nutshell things adequately? Forgot One thing of the few who did ok one got injured and had to come off.
You were drinking coffee at that time of night? I would never sleep if I did that. Perhaps Sarr should have had a double espresso before the penalty? Lots of tennis players do that. Speaking of which the only comparable miss I can think of to the penalty was my forehand volley on Sunday v Limpton,err Kimpton. In my defence we were 1 set,5-0 and 30 -0 up at the time.
Spot on, west Brom had clearly watched our first game and had a game plan prepared. Burnley I expect will be the same and we need to be able to adapt. I don't think the front 3 do us any favours either. For all their tricks and flicks they are often caught on the ball and frequently give it away
As an aside, isnt that the first time we've scored from outside the area in over 2 seasons or something?
Might just be me, but my take on it would be pretty much opposite - that WBA will improve the areas they need to in the remaining time in the window (and Skys interview with Bruce was about where he needs to strengthen the team) so they will get better, whereas our squad is only likely to get weaker! Hopefully I’m just a pessimist.
Unless I'm dreaming I believe Ian Bolton scored from his own half away in the late 70's early 80's apart from that I can't remember us doing it before!
Steve Sherwood scored a goal at Coventry from his own penalty area. I was actually at that game. I remember the Bolton one too. That was at Rotherham in a 2-1 win. But Sarr's last night was extra special. He actually meant it. The other two I've mentioned were long balls upfield which caught the keeper out and were total flukes.
Liked Manaj coming on and crunching people, could be a good foil for Pedro once Sarr and Dennis go. The biggest issue was that was our best midfield. Something needs to change quick.