[SOLD] Philip Zinckernagel

I would have been happy for Zinc to in our match day squad this season, I think he would have done OK.

 

They’re loving him at Forest already.
Well, ‘the Dutchess’ does..

 

Why have they written his middle names? Weirdos.

 

And another Forest fans assessment - praise indeed..

 

Hopefully he doesn’t come back as fat as him

 

He wouldn't have got many minutes at all with us and still looked off the pace.

Maybe if he really does well though he could be more ready in time for recalling him in Jan, when the Afcon could mean we might need him again.

 

It is one of my main annoyances with this club. We seem intent on giving new players fleeting chances to impress, often out of position, whilst persevering with existing players even when they are clearly out of form or past it, or just not good enough in any case. Giving new players the odd chance, or appearances as subs automatically piles the pressure on, so they try too hard to succeed and play with the constant knowledge that they will be ditched next game - it means they play with fear. I half- believe that the coaches "give -in" to the moaning from fans that dismiss players if they don't instantly look like stars.

Zinckernagel, in my view, is one of those new players we should have given far more opportunity in the first team. When players have done so well in other leagues, demonstrated that they have excellent ability elsewhere, they often need time to adjust to new teammates, styles and speed of the game before they can show they are good enough. I am quite a fan of Gosling, he is a steady, decent player who can do a job, but I think Zinc is a better player, has already shown more technical ability, and certainly more potential to be an "above average" attacking midfielder, if given the chance.

 

Couldn't agree more. But he's never going to be shifting Sarr. On another note we never gave him a real opportunity wide left.
Gosling gets far too much carp on here. He was bought in for one purpose, promotion and that was achieved. It turned into a very shrewd signing, is he going to get loads of minutes thise season I highly doubt it.

 

I think the criticism of Gosling is that most would rather see him loaned out and Zinc kept in the squad. I don’t think it’s anything personal, just frustration around how the club deal with things.

To me it’s like playing a game with someone where you both roll a dice, you then get to roll again if you want, and the highest score wins. Our approach in keeping Gosling and loaning Zinc seems to be that we’ve rolled a 2, but stick with a 2 in case we get a 1.

 

I agree I personally wanted Zinc to stay especially over Gosling but for reasons unknown he hasn't. For Zincs sake I hope he goes on to show the doubters his capabilities. None of us know honestly if he could of done much in the Premier and we won't for a while. But it's still a very strange decision from the club.

 

My problem is that in a squad with two creative players, we've loaned one out and put the other in detention because we don't know how contracts work.

 

Then he should have been given a 6 month contract with the option of a further 12 months surely? I don’t have a big problem with Gosling. But we shouldn’t pretend he won’t be another turd that won’t flush in 12 months time (if he’s not already).

 

Yes he should. But we're not the ones dishing out the contracts. Let's be honest his isn't the worst since Mr Pozzo has been at the club. We can all feel off loads of strange contracts given especially to injury prone or ageing players.

 

Approaching the fabled 'Daquré' levels of player-spelling there.

 

Does anyone know whether there is a recall option with this loan in January?

 

In Zinckernagel’s case we didn’t have that luxury. We were fighting for a very important promotion.

He does look a skilful player and I hope he makes it with us. But his naivety on the ball was exposed constantly and that means he would be likely to get sidelined again this year. A loan is a good move for all concerned.

We have this every year, from Forestieri onwards. The fact is the coaches are able to assess players better than we can and mostly get it right.

 

Difference with Forestieri was that, although our set-up that season wasn't the most creative, it was mightily effective, what we've got now is neither creative nor effective

 

We don’t know whether we will be effective this season. Creativity looks likely to come from fast attacking down the channels and not from fancy dannery.

 

All we need to do is lump it in the mixer. Guaranteed goles.

 

The coaches are never here for more than 5 minutes, so that isn’t particularly useful for a player who signed a 6 year deal.

 

That’s football anywhere. Where managers choose signings, often players tsign and then the boss gets sacked. The player is left under a different regime or philosophy. That’s how it goes.

But in Zinckernagel’s case, Munoz and have had plenty of time to run the rule over him. Honestly, we been having these debates since the first PL squad was announced. The PL is a very high standard to reach.

It may be true that we end up retaining the likes of Success, because, unlike PZN, no one will have him. But that’s not a reason to keep PZN in the squad to sit on the sidelines.

This year at Florist could be the making of him for us and this journey is completely what he signed up for with us for. He and we may be disappointed that it will take longer, but let’s not fantasise it could be different if we just did x or y.

 

We need someone to get the ball out wide mind you!

 

Genuine question - why is an alternative viewpoint now classed as an 'agenda'?

 

You think Munoz has a say on the incomings and outgoings? Come on now.

 

No. I said where managers have the say. It was in response to the complaint there is no consistency.

Simply, that even if a player gets chosen by a boss who does make transfers at another club, he is likely to be out on his ear before the player.

My point is that the coaches here have been able to assess PZN and know what they are doing.

 

Hoof it.

 

Does Zinc have a January recall clause in his loan agreement? I certainly hope so as when we lose several players to the ANC cup I think we will be needing him.

 

I appreciate that the ACON is a constant worry for you.

 

It should be for all of us WFC fans

 

I wouldn't say I'm worried but I can't see us getting past the group stage.

 

Should be quite low down on anyone’s list of worries, even if these are restricted to football and further restricted to Watford. We don’t know if by then any of our players will be selected, be on form, be injured etc. If it looks tricky the club can cover with loans in January.

Besides, we’ll probably have most of the points we’ll get all season by then anyway.

 

There is no such thing as the PL jackpot. It costs more to make a serious attempt to stay up than the increase in income delivers. That’s why most prem clubs operate at a loss. That’s why we made no attempt to stay up under GT and AB.

 

And to maintain each position in the PL is an exponential increase in cost

A 22,000 stadium just doesn't cut it

 

In fairness a bigger stadium doesn’t always mean you still don’t have to spend more than you earn. The Emirates is 60k capacity, but their owners aren’t willing to spend the money needed to make them a consistent top 6 side and hence they’ve found their level in mid table. We could never hope for that sort of attendance, so even if we had a 30k capacity stadium we’d still need to spend more than we earn to ensure we held our heads above water. It would help, but our match day revenue in the PL was a maximum of £9m, so even if we made that £25m an extra £15m a season isn’t the difference between regular struggles to survive and staying up easily, not with the way our owners go about their transfer business.