England squad for Euro 2012 announced

[theorns]

Goalkeepers: Hart, Ruddy, Green

Defenders: Johnson, Jones, Terry, Lescott, Cahill, Baines, Cole,

Midfielders: Walcott, Chamberlain, Milner, Young, Downing, Gerrard, Parker, Barry, Lampard

Forwards: Rooney, Defoe , Carrol, Welbeck

[J.B]

I'm at a complete loss as to how Downing has warranted a place in that squad.

[Wazza]

Still laughing at Stewart Downing being ahead of Adam Johnson

[El distraído]

Lampard, Gerrard, Terry and Downing all in the squad.

:yawn1:

Looks like I'll be following the Republic this summer, or another team. Maybe I'll devote my attention to the Olympics instead.

[Malteser]

Agree about Downing. Strange too to only have 3 strikers available for the first 2 matches. Most people thought he'd go with 5 forwards.

Glad they've taken a punt on AOC.

Crap that Terry's included. Like El distraído, I find I'm starting to care less and less about the England side and its over-paid, under-achieving, badly behaved primadonnas.

[luke_golden]

Hart
Jones Terry Cahill Cole
Walcott Parker Gerrard Young
Rooney (Defoe) Welbeck

Strongest team for me out of the players selected. It's a shame Smalling and Walker picked up injuries. Would have liked to see Sturridge involved although he's gone off the boil a little in the second half of the season. I'd have picked him over Downing. Well, I'd have picked anybody over Downing. Oxlade-Chamberlain could be the wildcard who makes an impact from the bench.

[J.B]

Lampard, Gerrard, Terry and Downing all in the squad.

:yawn1:

Looks like I'll be following the Republic this summer, or another team. Maybe I'll devote my attention to the Olympics instead.

You are the worst type of England 'supporter'.

[leighton buzzard horn]

Hmm...I was slightly more up for the Euro's after Roy was announced but he seems equally as scared as the previous managers of breaking away from the norm.

Downing - one goal and one assist all season, both against Oldham in the cup.
Micah Richards is far better than Glen Johnson will ever be.
Welbeck - My United supporting gaffer is amazed he is going ahead of the likes of Sturridge.
Carroll - He's been crap, and Crouch has a very good scoring record at international level.
John Terry - the bloke is a canut, disruptive, and has a complete lack of discipline.

It will be same old, same old. Scrape out of the group and then get knocked out after a limp performance and have a hard luck story lined up ready to go.

[Wazza]

Micah Richards?

[nascot]

He had a chance to make a bold statement and go for something different, try and blood some new players in to the set up and move on from the failures of the past. But no, same crap. Damm glad I didn't bother with tickets this year.

[wfcthroughandthrough]

Bored of England and have been for years. Love to support the national team in whatever sport, but in football its full of egotistical b@st@ards.

Did chuckle to see Downing in the squad though. Murray would be better than him!

[wfcthroughandthrough]

He had a chance to make a bold statement and go for something different, try and blood some new players in to the set up and move on from the failures of the past. But no, same crap. Damm glad I didn't bother with tickets this year.

I agree with this. Get the youngsters in, prepare for WC 2014

[El distraído]

You are the worst type of England 'supporter'.

I don't class myself as one and haven't been one for a while. This was the perfect opportunity for Hodgson and England to start afresh, with no expectation, and younger, hungrier and uncapped players. :dismay:

Hodgson has made his decision, and I've made mine. No England for me. I'm tired of the same old crap. Good luck Roy, you're going to need it I think.

[NathWFC]

Someone explain to me how Stewart f**king Downing has made the squad again? He has been ridiculed this season for his awful performances and the fact he didn't manage a SINGLE goal or assist in the league and he still makes the squad again? There are no words.

[Malteser]

In picking Glenn Johnson ahead of Micah Richards, Stewart Downing after a season in which he failed to score or assist a single goal in the Prem League and Andy Carroll at the end of a season where, until the last month, he underachieved, could the new England manager be accused to trying to appease the fans of his former club who once booed him?!

[nascot]

We have nothing to lose, there's no expectation of being successful so why not try to be different? Capello was one of the best coaches in the world he couldn't get them to play, what chance does Roy have? He's put me in a bad mood, the w****r.

[luke_golden]

He had a chance to make a bold statement and go for something different, try and blood some new players in to the set up and move on from the failures of the past. But no, same crap. Damm glad I didn't bother with tickets this year.

Funny thing is, I think most of us would be willing to take relative failure to perform in this competition if he had been bold and made a break from the past. Everybody would be a lot more forgiving if it was clear that he was building for Brazil 2014. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Barry etc, hopefully won't be anywhere near the 2014 squad so taking them now just seems like a waste. With this squad, he's got no excuse for the expected failure to perform and he won't find much sympathy from the many who wanted to see this tournament as a stepping stone for the future generations.

[Wazza]

It makes you wonder whether the manager picks the team or if the FA tell him who to pick

[Defunct]

Funny thing is, I think most of us would be willing to take relative failure to perform in this competition if he had been bold and made a break from the past. Everybody would be a lot more forgiving if it was clear that he was building for Brazil 2014. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Barry etc, hopefully won't be anywhere near the 2014 squad so taking them now just seems like a waste. With this squad, he's got no excuse for the expected failure to perform and he won't find much sympathy from the many who wanted to see this tournament as a stepping stone for the future generations.

I couldn't have put it better myself LG, well said.

[nascot]

Funny thing is, I think most of us would be willing to take relative failure to perform in this competition if he had been bold and made a break from the past. Everybody would be a lot more forgiving if it was clear that he was building for Brazil 2014. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Barry etc, hopefully won't be anywhere near the 2014 squad so taking them now just seems like a waste. With this squad, he's got no excuse for the expected failure to perform and he won't find much sympathy from the many who wanted to see this tournament as a stepping stone for the future generations.


Spot on. Take a gamble and fail? I reckon he could have got away with that. The majority of this lot have proved they're no good in finals yet they get another chance.

[El distraído]

Funny thing is, I think most of us would be willing to take relative failure to perform in this competition if he had been bold and made a break from the past. Everybody would be a lot more forgiving if it was clear that he was building for Brazil 2014. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Barry etc, hopefully won't be anywhere near the 2014 squad so taking them now just seems like a waste. With this squad, he's got no excuse for the expected failure to perform and he won't find much sympathy from the many who wanted to see this tournament as a stepping stone for the future generations.

Very well put.

Hodgson has just thrown away a golden chance to get rid of the so-called 'golden generation' once and for all. This will come back to haunt him big time.

[snowylad]

Funny thing is, I think most of us would be willing to take relative failure to perform in this competition if he had been bold and made a break from the past. Everybody would be a lot more forgiving if it was clear that he was building for Brazil 2014. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Barry etc, hopefully won't be anywhere near the 2014 squad so taking them now just seems like a waste. With this squad, he's got no excuse for the expected failure to perform and he won't find much sympathy from the many who wanted to see this tournament as a stepping stone for the future generations.
Couldn't agree more, worked wonders for Germany and would've stood us in good stead for WC and Euros to follow! I also believe it would've invigorated support for the team as well. It almost feels like it's a squad to please and the press in an attempt to get them onside after not getting 'Arry as gaffer!

All together now "If Downing can play for England so can I"

[luke_golden]

I was genuinely starting to look forward to this competition. I just can't see his thinking behind it. He's set himself up for an absolute pasting after we get knocked out in the same old tired fashion.

I do feel as though his hand was forced slightly by the injuries that have hit the squad. People like Smalling, Walker and Wilshere are likely to be a fairly integral part of the squad in 2014. Cleverey started the season brilliantly for United and would have been nailed on had he not suffered from injuries throughout the second half of the campaign. Him and Wilshere being fit would probably have taken at least one of Gerrard or Lampard out of the equation. Even if Adam Johnson hasn't played too much football this season, he's likely to have either broken into the City team or moved on by the time 2014 rolls around so taking Downing ahead of him seems like a ridiculous choice. Really shocked there is no place for Sturridge, he carried the Chelsea strike force on his own early on this season and had decent versatility.

[wimbornet]

Agree with NathWFC... just what is it that managers see in Downing? I cannot believe he's even playing in the prem. I really hoped Roy was gonna have a clearout and start building a fresh team with a few old heads for balance, but i think he's really missed an opportunity. Shame.

[Malteser]

Gerrard to be captain.

[ForzaWatford]

I hate Gareth Barry :doom:

[Hornmeister]

It makes you wonder whether the manager picks the team or if the FA tell him who to pick

The real reason Harry said no?

[Layton]

Why would we use one of the only 2 competitions we enter as a `building exercise`?

We support, or follow a country that pays ALL of its player’s extraordinary salaries; we have a right to expect the team to at LEAST challenge for the semi finals of any competition we enter

If we don’t want or have that expectation, stop paying them like world class players!!

[wfcthroughandthrough]

The real reason Harry said no?

Did Harry say no?

I'm sure he's fine with warming up the Vic crowd on a Saturday at 3 anyway ;)

[iljordan]

I'm a bit confused as to how I feel about this squad. As others have said I can't understand the inclusion of Downing and the exclusion of Richards. However, the argument that he is sticking with the old guard and shunning the youngsters doesn't completely stand up to scrutiny.

He couldn't pick Walker, Smalling or Wilshere because of injury, he has picked AOC, Jones, Ruddy and Carroll and in the case of the Liverpool striker has also been criticised for doing so. Arguably Jones is actually replacing Richards too.

I think Adam Johnson is a cracking player who always seems to add something positive when he comes on and I think I would have included him, but in fairness to Hodgson he has hardly played in the second half of the season.

Who exactly are all the youngsters that have been left out?

I do think there is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[buckingham horn]

Unfortunately there is a lack of left footed players in the Premier League that is why Downing is included. I would have liked an extra striker , maybe Peter Crouch especially since Rooney will miss the first 2 matches. All in all though agree with most of Roys selections

[NathWFC]

Unfortunately there is a lack of left footed players in the Premier League that is why Downing is included. I would have liked an extra striker , maybe Peter Crouch especially since Rooney will miss the first 2 matches. All in all though agree with most of Roys selections

In that case, pick Adam Johnson, who is a better player in every respect and has done incomparable amounts more in the league in his limited appearances than Downing has in a full season.

The inclusion of Downing is a genuine disgrace and sends out a bad message to the players who have actually done enough this season to EARN a place in the squad through their performances.

[TheDon]

**** this ****.

I can't stand Barry and Downing.

Was looking forward to a 'New England', but no, same old ****.

[J.B]

It really is a bit unfair to slag Hodgson when things like injuries are out of his control. I'm sure that if all players were fit we'd see the likes of Wilshere, Walker, Cleverley etc. in there.

I also think that putting Carroll over Crouch in is the correct call. He is on form at the minute, has scored some huge goals and is more in line with this vision of a young England team building towards the 2014 World Cup. He also showed against Chelsea in the Cup Final that on his day he is unplayable. I don't agree with Downing but we barely have any other left wingers to choose from who have been playing regularly apart from him and the likes of Jarvis and Etherington. Adam Johnson has barely played for City this season.

[NathWFC]

It really is a bit unfair to slag Hodgson when things like injuries are out of his control. I'm sure that if all players were fit we'd see the likes of Wilshere, Walker, Cleverley etc. in there.

I also think that putting Carroll over Crouch in is the correct call. He is on form at the minute, has scored some huge goals and is more in line with this vision of a young England team building towards the 2014 World Cup. He also showed against Chelsea in the Cup Final that on his day he is unplayable. I don't agree with Downing but we barely have any other left wingers to choose from who have been playing regularly apart from him and the likes of Jarvis and Etherington. Adam Johnson has barely played for City this season.

You don't pick a 'winger' who has played 36 games for a top 10 side and has failed to get a single goal or assist, it's as simple as that. Stewart Downing has had an absolutely awful season and has always been a very average player, and there are a ridiculous amount of players that deserve a place more than he does.

Any of Johnson, Lennon, Sinclair, Dyer, Jarvis or even the likes of Pilkington deserve a place in that squad untold amounts more than Downing does.

[LLST]

Why do we insist on picking Downing and Milner? They are both utter ****ing ****. Where are Adam Johnson or Aaron Lennon? Or Micah Richards? He's had a far better season than Phil Jones or Glen Johnson.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

That squad is an embarrassment

Will be supporting ROI this summer

[scummybear]

Roy was always going to name this squad, I'm actually confused by the 'uproar'.

Throwing in youngsters straight into a major international tournament, with the enormous media and fan pressure that comes with it would have been very damaging to their development. These youngsters need feeding into the squad as and when they are ready, easing them up to the major competitions. We will be building for the World Cup, but not until after the Euros, Roy isn't stupid, give him a bit of a chance before you start slagging him off!

[Spud]

What a joke. Andy Carrol gets picked....hes scored 4 all season. Crouch has scored 10 inc goal of the season against City and isnt picked. Danny Graham has scored 12, Grant Holt has scored 15 this season......... and both dont get a look in. And wheres Carrick ? Hes had a tremondous season at United and p***** all over Gerrard, whos been awful. And Terry......enough said. Its a squad that the FA have picked. No wonder Hodgson picked Neville to help him..............‎.....

[nascot]

Maybe he could have picked a 30 man squad and used it in the 2 friendlies, then cut the squad down to 23. At least he could have given some rookies a taste of international football. Unless now is the deadline for squad submissions?

[wfc4ever]

Maybe he could have picked a 30 man squad and used it in the 2 friendlies, then cut the squad down to 23. At least he could have given some rookies a taste of international football. Unless now is the deadline for squad submissions?

I notice other teams have named a bigger squad.

Its a shame the likes of Walker and Wilshere are injured as they were young and had some quality.

My worry isn't so much the defence (Rio is so injury prone Roy probably thought it was too much of a risk to take him..) but up front is a problem in that will we get enough goals baring in mind Rooney is out for 2 games?

The midfield could be exciting if on form with the pace outwide..but its all about confidence with the likes of Walcott and even Young.

No idea why Downing is in but probably due to lack of other options.

[NathWFC]

I notice other teams have named a bigger squad.

Its a shame the likes of Walker and Wilshere are injured as they were young and had some quality.

My worry isn't so much the defence (Rio is so injury prone Roy probably thought it was too much of a risk to take him..) but up front is a problem in that will we get enough goals baring in mind Rooney is out for 2 games?

The midfield could be exciting if on form with the pace outwide..but its all about confidence with the likes of Walcott and even Young.

No idea why Downing is in but probably due to lack of other options.

I really don't understand why people keep saying this, there isn't a lack of options at all, and ANYONE would be a better option than a winger that played a full league season without an assist or a goal in a top 8 side.

He is a ridiculous, pathetic choice, simple as.

[To pints of Lager now]

In picking Glenn Johnson ahead of Micah Richards, Stewart Downing after a season in which he failed to score or assist a single goal in the Prem League and Andy Carroll at the end of a season where, until the last month, he underachieved, could the new England manager be accused to trying to appease the fans of his former club who once booed him?!


The squad is shocking..Carroll 6 goals in 41 games,does this not remind us of Heskey...only 3 strikers available for the 1st 2 games as Rooney can not play..Ruddy I do not understand,Downing is pure sh!te,and there is one name on standby I have never even heard of.Fecking clueless.

[AshdonWFC]

The squad is shocking..Carroll 6 goals in 41 games,does this not remind us of Heskey...only 3 strikers available for the 1st 2 games as Rooney can not play..Ruddy I do not understand,Downing is pure sh!te,and there is one name on standby I have never even heard of.Fecking clueless.

And he's taking the same old people. Lampard, Gerrard & Barry. Maybe now you understand more what I was saying the other week when discussing Terry's antics vs Barcelona about why i'm getting so fed up with the state of our national game? I'm all for getting behind Hodgson and everything, but he hasn't helped himself out with his selection.

[To pints of Lager now]

And he's taking the same old people. Lampard, Gerrard & Barry. Maybe now you understand more what I was saying the other week when discussing Terry's antics vs Barcelona about why i'm getting so fed up with the state of our national game? I'm all for getting behind Hodgson and everything, but he hasn't helped himself out with his selection.


Lampard and Gerrald are still the 2 best midfielders in the country,and so what if Terry was sent off v Barca,he has still played very well for chelski,I do not see another Central defender better than him.Cahill is fecking terrible,Rio has not played hardly at all this season.We should not take players because they may have potential in the future because they may not turn out to be.

Carroll is just a joke,Crouch should be ahead of him by miles.

[wfc4ever]

Yes I quite like Lampard and Gerrard as players TBH...trouble is the latter has injury problems.

TBH The trouble is so many of the english players hardly get a chance in certain positions at their clubs that we really do have to fill the gasps.

For example people said Richards must go but then he hasn't played as much for Man City in recent weeks.

[J.B]

I'm still quite surprised at the hysteria and backlash that has occurred over the naming of this squad.

What would people honestly change other than putting someone else in the place of Downing (who probably won't feature anyway)?

[iljordan]

And he's taking the same old people. Lampard, Gerrard & Barry. Maybe now you understand more what I was saying the other week when discussing Terry's antics vs Barcelona about why i'm getting so fed up with the state of our national game? I'm all for getting behind Hodgson and everything, but he hasn't helped himself out with his selection.

Take a few minutes to sit down and work out which squad YOU would pick, by the time you've considered covering position, balance, flexibility of formation, inexperienced players and experienced players it is much more difficult than just throwing names out there and what seems like fairly unconsidered opinion.

In this squad, Hodgson has picked Ruddy, Jones, AOC and Carroll, all a change from the 'same old'. Due to injury he hasn't been able to pick Walker, Smalling, Wilshere and Cleverley, if they hadn't been injured you'd have to assume that at least Wilshere and Walker would have made the squad, that would be 25% of the squad as 'new blood'. To get the best out of young players they need to be brought through alongside more experienced players. I can understand criticism of individual picks like Downing, but sweeping criticism of the selection of the 'old guard' strikes me as just going along with popular opinion and not actually thinking it through.

Out of interest, who would you take instead of Barry, Gerrard and Lampard?

[hornetboy1]

Take a few minutes to sit down and work out which squad YOU would pick, by the time you've considered covering position, balance, flexibility of formation, inexperienced players and experienced players it is much more difficult than just throwing names out there and what seems like fairly unconsidered opinion.

In this squad, Hodgson has picked Ruddy, Jones, AOC and Carroll, all a change from the 'same old'. Due to injury he hasn't been able to pick Walker, Smalling, Wilshere and Cleverley, if they hadn't been injured you'd have to assume that at least Wilshere and Walker would have made the squad, that would be 25% of the squad as 'new blood'. To get the best out of young players they need to be brought through alongside more experienced players. I can understand criticism of individual picks like Downing, but sweeping criticism of the selection of the 'old guard' strikes me as just going along with popular opinion and not actually thinking it through.
Out of interest, who would you take instead of Barry, Gerrard and Lampard?This is a fan's forum.....what else would you expect?

Totally agree with you btw.

[Kieran]

This is a fan's forum.....what else would you expect?

Totally agree with you btw.

You're a renegade.

[sm9an]

I thought it was a decent selection given the players available.

[wfcmoog]

After reading this thread, I support Roy 120%.

I hate Downing, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry and most of the other players, but I don't know who would play instead of them. Mainly because I haven't watched a Premier League football match for 5 years. Surprised Scholes wasn't included TBH.

Come on you 'Orns!

[nascot]

I don't pay much attention to the Premier League so excuse me when I ask, who the **** is Martin Kelly? And how's he earnt a call up? There must be other full backs ahead of him.

[hornetboy1]

I don't pay much attention to the Premier League so excuse me when I ask, who the **** is Martin Kelly? And how's he earnt a call up? There must be other full backs ahead of him.Didn't he host Stars In Their Eyes?

[iljordan]

I don't pay much attention to the Premier League so excuse me when I ask, who the **** is Martin Kelly? And how's he earnt a call up? There must be other full backs ahead of him.

He's part of the new generation, bring back the old guard.

[Edstannard]

Ruddy is injured so Jack Butland has been called up! 24 appearances - all for League 2 Cheltenham!

Is there no better English keeper to have as 3rd choice?!?!?

[J.B]

Is there no better English keeper to have as 3rd choice?!?!?

It's probably more of a case of other keepers refusing to go on standby and mess up their holidays on the off chance that they might get a call up.

Micah Richards and Carrick definitely both refused to go on standby.

[Edstannard]

I'd prefer Richard Lee!

[hornetboy1]

Ruddy is out through injury. Really sorry for the guy. He had such a good season for Norwich and looked like an excellent backup to Hart.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/england/18204979

[leighton buzzard horn]

Butland ahead of Loach speaks volumes about Loach's progression slowing right down. If he stays then I reckon he will up his game next year having had the opportunity to work for a while with a top class keeper and also now being overlooked for the Euro's when inexperienced players like Butland are involved.

[hornetboy1]

Butland ahead of Loach speaks volumes about Loach's progression slowing right down. If he stays then I reckon he will up his game next year having had the opportunity to work for a while with a top class keeper and also now being overlooked for the Euro's when inexperienced players like Butland are involved.The reason Butland is there is because Dave Watson is the goalkeeping coach for Birmingham and now England. He's had his recommendation accepted, but I certainly will be praying Hart and Green stay fit. Butland is only 19 and has never played for Birmingham. The highest he's ever played in League Two, just 12 times for Cheltenham!!.

If Butland plays in the European Championships, I don't think Hodgson can really justify his inclusion if it all goes wrong. There are many keepers who are more experienced that are English available.

[GoingDown]

Yeah but how many of them want to waste their summer in the sun after a long season sitting on a bench in the Ukraine?

Foster? Nope.
Robinson? Nope.
Forster? Nope.

They are probably the next after, or even before Green in the pecking order and all of them have said they aren't interested. Might as well take a kid who wants to actually be there.

[wfc4ever]

Foster was asked to go but declined and Robinson has quit international football I think.

[hornetboy1]

Yeah but how many of them want to waste their summer in the sun after a long season sitting on a bench in the Ukraine?

Foster? Nope.
Robinson? Nope.
Forster? Nope.

They are probably the next after, or even before Green in the pecking order and all of them have said they aren't interested. Might as well take a kid who wants to actually be there.Well there are more keepers around ahead of Butland. What about Kirkland or Carson. David James is a bit past it, but can still do a job. Even Loach would be a better bet as he has lots of experience.

I think taking Butland, at this time in his career, is an unnecessary risk. Although when it comes to keepers, if we get an injury we can call up someone else, so maybe he will only be there just for the ride.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

Butland

Johnson - Jones - Cahill - Baines

Ox-Chamb - Milner - Barry - Downing

Carroll - Defoe

^

Would that team stay up in the Premier League?

[Squibba]

Butland

Johnson - Jones - Cahill - Baines

Ox-Chamb - Milner - Barry - Downing

Carroll - Defoe

^

Would that team stay up in the Premier League?

Well looking at their Premier League stats.

Johnson - 23 games, 1 goal, 0 assists
Jones - 29 games, 1 goal, 2 assists
Cahill - 29 games, 3 goals, 0 assists.
Baines - 33 games, 4 goals, 2 assists.
Ox Chamo - 16 games, 2 goals, 1 assist.
Milner - 26 games, 3 goals, 5 assists.
Barry - 34 games, 1 goal, 3 assists.
Downing - 36 games, 0 goals, 0 assists, SEVENTY TWO SHOTS.
Carroll - 35 games, 4 goals, 2 assists. EIGHTY EIGHT SHOTS (with Downing and Carroll's conversion rate you can see why Liverpool struggled!!)
Defoe - 25 games, 11 goals (brilliant) 1 assist.


30 goals. Can't be bothered to work out goals conceded but with Butland in goal it'll be more than 30. But let's assume they all played full 38 games i'd say Defoe would score few more as would Chambo and Carroll bringing it too maybe 40 goals?

Wolves - 40 goals
Blackburn - 48
Bolton - 46
Villa - 37

So my answer is, no.

[NathWFC]

I still can't get over the fact that Downing is in the squad, and he's also apparently starting tonight. Absolutely ridiculous.

[TheDon]

Well looking at their Premier League stats.

Johnson - 23 games, 1 goal, 0 assists
Jones - 29 games, 1 goal, 2 assists
Cahill - 29 games, 3 goals, 0 assists.
Baines - 33 games, 4 goals, 2 assists.
Ox Chamo - 16 games, 2 goals, 1 assist.
Milner - 26 games, 3 goals, 5 assists.
Barry - 34 games, 1 goal, 3 assists.
Downing - 36 games, 0 goals, 0 assists, SEVENTY TWO SHOTS.
Carroll - 35 games, 4 goals, 2 assists. EIGHTY EIGHT SHOTS (with Downing and Carroll's conversion rate you can see why Liverpool struggled!!)
Defoe - 25 games, 11 goals (brilliant) 1 assist.


30 goals. Can't be bothered to work out goals conceded but with Butland in goal it'll be more than 30. But let's assume they all played full 38 games i'd say Defoe would score few more as would Chambo and Carroll bringing it too maybe 40 goals?

Wolves - 40 goals
Blackburn - 48
Bolton - 46
Villa - 37

So my answer is, no.

Defoe got that many goals due to playing with Bale, Modric, Van Der Vaart, Parker in midfield, I doubt Downing and Barry would make up for this

[J.B]

Butland

Johnson - Jones - Cahill - Baines

Ox-Chamb - Milner - Barry - Downing

Carroll - Defoe

^

Would that team stay up in the Premier League?

Yes and with ease.

[Squibba]

Defoe got that many goals due to playing with Bale, Modric, Van Der Vaart, Parker in midfield, I doubt Downing and Barry would make up for this

So basically they'd finish a measly bottom?

[hornetboy1]

Butland

Johnson - Jones - Cahill - Baines

Ox-Chamb - Milner - Barry - Downing

Carroll - Defoe

^

Would that team stay up in the Premier League?

Apart from the keeper, and we know he wont be playing, it's not a bad team. It'll be a top half of the table side for sure.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

Apart from the keeper, and we know he wont be playing, it's not a bad team. It'll be a top half of the table side for sure.Not a chance in hell would it be top half

It would do well to stay up, high mid table at best

[J.B]

Not a chance in hell would it be top half

It would do well to stay up, high mid table at best

Aside from Butland, all of that side is made up of players who play for a top 8 PL team yet are still our second/third string side.

Surely that lineup bodes well for us if anything?

[ImRonBurgundy?]

Aside from Butland, all of that side is made up of players who play for a top 8 PL team yet are still our second/third string side.

Surely that lineup bodes well for us if anything?Ross Turnbull plays for the Champions of Europe, he must be amazing

[J.B]

Ross Turnbull plays for the Champions of Europe, he must be amazing

How many appearances has he made this season?

[hornetboy1]

It's certainly turning out to be a good news days. Gareth Barry has been ruled out of Euro 2012....:biggrin:

[AngelHornet]

Replaced by a defender, which is a bit negative

[J.B]

Replaced by a defender, which is a bit negative

Jagielka can play at defensive mid and did so for his entire time at Sheffield United.

I think Roy would have taken this as a chance to call him up anyway after his great performance at the weekend regardless.

[HORNETCP]

I don't usually get worked up reading stuff on this forum, but some of this is ridiculous.

Jack Butland is in the squad because he's a young keeper who we hope will eventually take the reigns. The likelyhood of him being used is low to say the least, so him being involved in a tournament environment with the senior squad is bound to help his development and so he won't be getting dropped in at the deep end when we need him. The same applied to Ruddy, although clearly less noticeably. If one of Green or Hart gets injured expect a call-up for Carson or Stockdale to be number 2 in front of Butland.

Stewart Downing is in the squad because not only is he left footed unlike pretty much every other possible England winger, but he also has some kind of positional discipline to his game, some Roy, quite rightly, is vry big on. To beat the best we need to be organised and also cant be ****ing about when we get the chance. Much of Stewart Downings inability to get assists this season has been down to Carroll and Suarez's inability to put a ball into the back of the net. His delivery into the box has rarely dipped below the levels you'd expect of him. But hey, it's only stats that matter right? Not what we can interpret with our own eyes.

Gareth Barry will be missed. He's been exceptionally solid for Man City this year, yet 2 years ago still looms over his head. He's precisely the sort of player needed to play behind Gerrard with Parker. It doesn't help that Micheal Carrick has ruled himself out very quietly, as beyond him I don't see who could do Barry's job.

Every single player in this squad makes sense to me. The ONLY (minor) question mark I do have is Andy Carroll in front of Peter Crouch, although I thought Carrol was a bright point from Saturday evening, and his hold up play both aerially and on the floor is exceptionally useful, particularly with someone like Ashley Young or even Theo Walcott beside or just behind him.

I'm not optimistic, don't get me wrong. But I think a managers job is to maximise the chances of winning, and by picking the players he has there is a clear tactical plan in place based on solidity and taking chances when possible, and Roy is doing his job. It's down to the players to execute, and I think this squad represents our best chance with the players at his disposal available for England.

[wfc4ever]

Replaced by a defender, which is a bit negative

Hodgson said he had enough cover in mdfield and TBH Jaglieka is more international quality than Henderson.

[J.B]

I don't usually get worked up reading stuff on this forum, but some of this is ridiculous.

Jack Butland is in the squad because he's a young keeper who we hope will eventually take the reigns. The likelyhood of him being used is low to say the least, so him being involved in a tournament environment with the senior squad is bound to help his development and so he won't be getting dropped in at the deep end when we need him. The same applied to Ruddy, although clearly less noticeably. If one of Green or Hart gets injured expect a call-up for Carson or Stockdale to be number 2 in front of Butland.

Stewart Downing is in the squad because not only is he left footed unlike pretty much every other possible England winger, but he also has some kind of positional discipline to his game, some Roy, quite rightly, is vry big on. To beat the best we need to be organised and also cant be ****ing about when we get the chance. Much of Stewart Downings inability to get assists this season has been down to Carroll and Suarez's inability to put a ball into the back of the net. His delivery into the box has rarely dipped below the levels you'd expect of him. But hey, it's only stats that matter right? Not what we can interpret with our own eyes.

Gareth Barry will be missed. He's been exceptionally solid for Man City this year, yet 2 years ago still looms over his head. He's precisely the sort of player needed to play behind Gerrard with Parker. It doesn't help that Micheal Carrick has ruled himself out very quietly, as beyond him I don't see who could do Barry's job.

Every single player in this squad makes sense to me. The ONLY (minor) question mark I do have is Andy Carroll in front of Peter Crouch, although I thought Carrol was a bright point from Saturday evening, and his hold up play both aerially and on the floor is exceptionally useful, particularly with someone like Ashley Young or even Theo Walcott beside or just behind him.

I'm not optimistic, don't get me wrong. But I think a managers job is to maximise the chances of winning, and by picking the players he has there is a clear tactical plan in place based on solidity and taking chances when possible, and Roy is doing his job. It's down to the players to execute, and I think this squad represents our best chance with the players at his disposal available for England.

Spot on.

As for Downing being in the squad due to his positional discipline, that is exactly why players like Adam Johnson and Micah Richards didn't make the squad. Hodgson builds regimented, organised teams who play with discipline and work as a team and do not play as individuals. Ironically enough this is what people have been crying out for an England manager to do for years and when he does it he gets slated.

[hornetboy1]

I see Hodgson going about his business in making England hard to beat, but the flip side is that we are unlikely to be a free scoring side. I'm actually quite confident Hodgson will do a decent job, but I can see England becoming similar to a Scandinavian team. That's not meant as an insult, but that's what I see us becoming.

[bedmond_hornet]

This may sound silly, but a big worry for me is that there are no real quality CM's coming to the fore,
I would be tempted to try Bradley Johnson and Jonny Howson from Norwich. Both have played together for quite some time and compliment each other well.

I would of been happy if Roy had cleared out all of the dead wood, and made it clear he was building for the future.
If he picked a young team who were hungry and gave 100% every game! I wouldn't care if we didn't qualify for the knock out stages.

[NathWFC]

I don't usually get worked up reading stuff on this forum, but some of this is ridiculous.

Jack Butland is in the squad because he's a young keeper who we hope will eventually take the reigns. The likelyhood of him being used is low to say the least, so him being involved in a tournament environment with the senior squad is bound to help his development and so he won't be getting dropped in at the deep end when we need him. The same applied to Ruddy, although clearly less noticeably. If one of Green or Hart gets injured expect a call-up for Carson or Stockdale to be number 2 in front of Butland.

Stewart Downing is in the squad because not only is he left footed unlike pretty much every other possible England winger, but he also has some kind of positional discipline to his game, some Roy, quite rightly, is vry big on. To beat the best we need to be organised and also cant be ****ing about when we get the chance. Much of Stewart Downings inability to get assists this season has been down to Carroll and Suarez's inability to put a ball into the back of the net. His delivery into the box has rarely dipped below the levels you'd expect of him. But hey, it's only stats that matter right? Not what we can interpret with our own eyes.

Gareth Barry will be missed. He's been exceptionally solid for Man City this year, yet 2 years ago still looms over his head. He's precisely the sort of player needed to play behind Gerrard with Parker. It doesn't help that Micheal Carrick has ruled himself out very quietly, as beyond him I don't see who could do Barry's job.

Every single player in this squad makes sense to me. The ONLY (minor) question mark I do have is Andy Carroll in front of Peter Crouch, although I thought Carrol was a bright point from Saturday evening, and his hold up play both aerially and on the floor is exceptionally useful, particularly with someone like Ashley Young or even Theo Walcott beside or just behind him.

I'm not optimistic, don't get me wrong. But I think a managers job is to maximise the chances of winning, and by picking the players he has there is a clear tactical plan in place based on solidity and taking chances when possible, and Roy is doing his job. It's down to the players to execute, and I think this squad represents our best chance with the players at his disposal available for England.

Seen Butland play a lot have you? How do you know he will be the man to eventually "take the reigns"? Some people were saying Loach was going to be the next big thing and a future England 'keeper and look how that's turned out. I don't particularly have a problem with his inclusion, but at his age and level of experience it is a very, very strange selection, and if the unthinkable were to happen and both Hart and Green were injured then we could be in big trouble.

The bit about Downing is just utter rubbish I'm afraid. One of the many things he's been criticised for this season has been his lack of discipline and work rate in tracking back when needed and watching the game pass him by. The part about his lack of assists being mainly Carroll and Suarez's fault is complete tosh too. Enough other Liverpool players this season have managed a number of assists (and goals for that matter) with Carroll, Suarez or whoever else up front, but of course it'd be easy just to blame them for Downing's own failings and for it all to be a coincidence. The man hasn't got any goals or assists in the league for Liverpool because his personal performances this season have been AWFUL, and the fact is there are a number of English wingers who have had a far better season and have far better attributes than Downing who deserve a place ahead of him.

[J.B]

The bit about Downing is just utter rubbish I'm afraid. One of the many things he's been criticised for this season has been his lack of discipline and work rate in tracking back when needed and watching the game pass him by. The part about his lack of assists being mainly Carroll and Suarez's fault is complete tosh too. Enough other Liverpool players this season have managed a number of assists (and goals for that matter) with Carroll, Suarez or whoever else up front, but of course it'd be easy just to blame them for Downing's own failings and for it all to be a coincidence. The man hasn't got any goals or assists in the league for Liverpool because his personal performances this season have been AWFUL, and the fact is there are a number of English wingers who have had a far better season and have far better attributes than Downing who deserve a place ahead of him.

I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but I did see a stat somewhere showing that Downing has created by far the most amount of unconverted chances in the PL this season.

ITV also showed a stat before the game on Saturday that showed that since the 2010 World Cup he has the highest amount of assists for England bar Ashley Young.

[NathWFC]

I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but I did see a stat somewhere showing that Downing has created by far the most amount of unconverted chances in the PL this season.

One thing I won't deny is that he can cross a ball, the problem is that whilst he might technically create a lot of chances and put in some decent balls the majority of his crosses come from deep which are harder to attack and easier to defend, because he doesn't/can't beat players and whip them in from more dangerous positions. Particularly this season he frequently runs down the wing, decides he can't beat his man and either checks back in and lays it off to someone else or crosses from deep, rather than driving down the line or into the box and creating something really dangerous.

[HORNETCP]

Seen Butland play a lot have you? How do you know he will be the man to eventually "take the reigns"? Some people were saying Loach was going to be the next big thing and a future England 'keeper and look how that's turned out. I don't particularly have a problem with his inclusion, but at his age and level of experience it is a very, very strange selection, and if the unthinkable were to happen and both Hart and Green were injured then we could be in big trouble.

The bit about Downing is just utter rubbish I'm afraid. One of the many things he's been criticised for this season has been his lack of discipline and work rate in tracking back when needed and watching the game pass him by. The part about his lack of assists being mainly Carroll and Suarez's fault is complete tosh too. Enough other Liverpool players this season have managed a number of assists (and goals for that matter) with Carroll, Suarez or whoever else up front, but of course it'd be easy just to blame them for Downing's own failings and for it all to be a coincidence. The man hasn't got any goals or assists in the league for Liverpool because his personal performances this season have been AWFUL, and the fact is there are a number of English wingers who have had a far better season and have far better attributes than Downing who deserve a place ahead of him.

I didn't say I'd seen Jack Butland play (although I have as it happens), I just said he was being talked about as the future England keeper. Like I said, Butland won't be number 1 in this tournament, whatever happens. Whoever is called up to replace Hart or Green if they're injured will be. Carson is still available, and frankly the way he's been treated by English supporters is horrendous (if mildly justified) since THAT Croatia game. He's still a good keeper, one of the best we've got, but made a mistake on a stage that has effectively killed his career. The fact he's now in Turkey hasn't helped either.

As for Downing we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying he's been playing outlandishly well, but I do think he's been unfairly maligned for this by people who haven't watched as much football as they should before making an informed decision. In this system, against the quality of teams we'll be up against, I would much rather have him in my team than Adam Johnson. The ability to quickly get a cross in on his strong foot instead of screwing about with someone trying to get it on their strong foot is important.

[iljordan]

This may sound silly, but a big worry for me is that there are no real quality CM's coming to the fore,
I would be tempted to try Bradley Johnson and Jonny Howson from Norwich. Both have played together for quite some time and compliment each other well.

I would of been happy if Roy had cleared out all of the dead wood, and made it clear he was building for the future.
If he picked a young team who were hungry and gave 100% every game! I wouldn't care if we didn't qualify for the knock out stages.

We've got Wilshere and Cleverley to come through but unfortunately both injured at the moment. Hopefully we'll see much more of both in WC qualification.

[99mph]

Joey Barton:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18378032

He wrote on Twitter: "On ability I walk into the squad, on behaviour I don't."

Joey Barton - 'I'd walk into England squad'


Bahahahaha