21/01/12 Championship WFC 0-3 Birmingham

[domthehornet]

I am not feeling confident about this one, hopefully Hogg is fit otherwise we will be on the end of a drubbing.

Brum are without Ridgewell, Carr and Ibanez. We are without Martin Taylor who broke one of his toes in a friendly against Dagenhem & Redbridge and Stephen McGinn who has returned to training. Hogg is doubtful.

I predict a 2-0 win to Brum

[hornetboy1]

I've got to agree with you on this one Dom. I think we will have a torrid afternoon as Brum are on fire right now. The only thing we can cling to is that Birmingham may take this match too lightly after their epic win a Wolves and a 6-0 at Millwall, but I doubt it. I can see King putting a couple past us and with our lack of creativity and poor finishing, I don't think we'll trouble their defence too much. 2-0 is a good shout, but it could easily be a right drubbing.

[99mph]

Do you mean the 21st?

[domthehornet]

Do you mean the 21st?

Bollox, cheers for pointing that out 99mph.

Mutch will tear us apart I'm afraid to say...

[Cassetti's Beard]

No point in even listening to this match, we're going to get battered.

[Hornet23]

Come on guys where's the positivity?! I'll go 2-1 to us, Marv and Yeates from a free kick.

[NathWFC]

WatfordFC XI v Birmingham: Loach; Hodson, Nosworthy, Mariappa, Dickinson; Eustace, Hogg,; Deeney, Buaben, Yeates; Sordell.

No Forsyth thank god.

[Hornet23]

Saying that our only attacking sub on the bench is Big Chris.... Still, looks like 4-3-3 which looks pretty solid!

[leighton buzzard horn]

More likely to be 4-5-1, or 4-4-1-1. He won't go three in midfield at St Andrews, that would be suicidal.

[hornetboy1]

WatfordFC XI v Birmingham: Loach; Hodson, Nosworthy, Mariappa, Dickinson; Eustace, Hogg,; Deeney, Buaben, Yeates; Sordell.

No Forsyth thank god.I would like to see Garner given a run out, but am happy Forsyth has been dropped. Looks like a solid formation that will look to grind out a 0-0, with the hope of a goal on the break. This is probably the best eleven we could possibly select.

[Spud]

Need to spend less time on FB, I keep lookin for the 'like' button........a draw would be a fine result, Brum are a very strong side with alot of experience.

[Hornet23]

More likely to be 4-5-1, or 4-4-1-1. He won't go three in midfield at St Andrews, that would be suicidal.

Yeah I know I should have said 4-3-3/4-5-1 without the ball.

[Squibba]

Interesteting formation, no Garner on the bench!

SUBS: Bond, Doyley, Jenkins, Forsyth, Iwelumo

I dont know why he chooses Iwelumo but lets see.

[Moose]

Barring new signings it's exactly what we should play v Spuzz, 4-5-1.

[buckingham horn]

Ill be happy for a point from this!

[UHORNS]

Never expected to get anything out of this game but the most annoying thing about this season is we seem to have good little spells,dont manage to score and the other side goes up the other and bangs one in.

I think we need a full back,two wingers and a goalscorer added to the current squad if we are to be succesful.At present this squad is only going in one direction.

[domthehornet]

Not good enough I'm afraid. I didn't expect us to win but I thought we could at least threaten them. If the EDL chants are true and from our fans (especially) it is disgusting. And it is a dark day for Watford.

[Whippendell Woods]

Didn't go but looking BBC Sport updates regards Watford; we had 3 shots- Eustace, Yeates and Sordell. Nothing after 51 minutes and didn't even get a corner.

Oh dear.

Crying out for creativity and a player who the opposition are wary of and who lifts our spirits.

We seem to have reverted to dull.

[NathWFC]

I expected us to lose today but as I said in the shoutbox regardless of todays result I'm finding it very hard to like Watford this season.

The team is completely personality-less and devoid of any real flair and creativity, and I don't and never have had any real faith in Dyche. The majority of his signings have been poor and he fills the bench with those same poor, ineffective signings (Iwelumo, Beattie, Forsyth etc.) rather than giving prospects like Whichelow and Murray any sort of chance, and the football we play is generally awful.

I'm not demanding for his head after losses to Reading and Birmingham, though as I've said I never wanted him as manager in the first place, but I'm absolutely certain that if he fails to bring in at least one effective winger and a striker that actually scores some goals, and we pick up an injury or two and/or sell Sordell then he won't have the managerial experience or ability to stop us from going down.

[Spud]

Not good enough I'm afraid. I didn't expect us to win but I thought we could at least threaten them. If the EDL chants are true and from our fans (especially) it is disgusting. And it is a dark day for Watford.

Unfortunately Dom, the EDL thang is a sign o the times n a way that British youth in particular have found to find their own identity. Their argument being its ok for muslims n the like to be nationalistic in someone elses' country but not patrons of said country apart from in war time. Not my thoughts I might add. I jus wish everyone could jus get on.

[hornetboy1]

It's a very worrying trend. Since Kightly's last match we have played 3 in the league, lost the lot, conceded 7 and scored just 1, an OG. Not sure how we will be able to turn it around, as we dont have the money to get the necessary quality in. Good forward/creative players were at the club this time last year, but for whatever the reason, have been allowed to leave and have been replaced by inferior quality signings. I think it's false economy to buy in 4 or 5 cheapies, rather than 1 or 2 quality players. Chickens are coming home to roost I think.

[J.B]

I expected us to lose today but as I said in the shoutbox regardless of todays result I'm finding it very hard to like Watford this season.

The team is completely personality-less and devoid of any real flair and creativity, and I don't and never have had any real faith in Dyche. The majority of his signings have been poor and he fills the bench with those same poor, ineffective signings (Iwelumo, Beattie, Forsyth etc.) rather than giving prospects like Whichelow and Murray any sort of chance, and the football we play is generally awful.

I'm not demanding for his head after losses to Reading and Birmingham, though as I've said I never wanted him as manager in the first place, but I'm absolutely certain that if he fails to bring in at least one effective winger and a striker that actually scores some goals, and we pick up an injury or two and/or sell Sordell then he won't have the managerial experience or ability to stop us from going down.

Personally I think that one decent winger would sort us out. Yes it would be nice to see more youngsters and a more attacking bench but no one was complaining about that when we went eight games unbeaten.

I'm not sure I agree about us playing awful football either. Today sounded pretty dire and we were poor against Reading but that is the only game I can remember in the last couple of months where we have played awful football.

[J.B]

It's a very worrying trend. Since Kightly's last match we have played 3 in the league, lost the lot, conceded 7 and scored just 1, an OG. Not sure how we will be able to turn it around, as we dont have the money to get the necessary quality in. Good forward/creative players were at the club this time last year, but for whatever the reason, have been allowed to leave and have been replaced by inferior quality signings. I think it's false economy to buy in 4 or 5 cheapies, rather than 1 or 2 quality players. Chickens are coming home to roost I think.

You summed up the invalidity of your point when you based our 'inability to turn things around' and 'chickens coming home to roost' on the basis of our last three league games.

[Malteser]

Nath I endorse your viewpoints 100%.

I hope tonight doesn't develop into another verbal battle between those happy and those unhappy with Dyche. We are all supporters of the same club and want the best for it. I dearly want to be proved wrong and for us to comfortably stay up, playing some decent football, but at the moment its not happening.

Having said that, today was always going to be a bonus..they have the best defence at home in the div and have just beaten a PL side..there's no disgrace in defeat at B'ham.

[NathWFC]

Personally I think that one decent winger would sort us out. Yes it would be nice to see more youngsters and a more attacking bench but no one was complaining about that when we went eight games unbeaten.

I'm not sure I agree about us playing awful football either. Today sounded pretty dire and we were poor against Reading but that is the only game I can remember in the last couple of months where we have played awful football.

We need another striker. We can't continue to rely solely on Sordell to score our goals, there has to be another forward capable of chipping in. Deeney works hard but as much as people want him to be is just not a Championship striker, Iwelumo has been one of the worst signings in recent memory and for whatever reason Garner doesn't get a look in. If Sordell were to get injured or leave without being replaced we would be in massive trouble.

[jpROOKERYwfc]

Darius Henderson, what a coup that would of been!

[hornetboy1]

I expected us to lose today but as I said in the shoutbox regardless of todays result I'm finding it very hard to like Watford this season.

The team is completely personality-less and devoid of any real flair and creativity, and I don't and never have had any real faith in Dyche. The majority of his signings have been poor and he fills the bench with those same poor, ineffective signings (Iwelumo, Beattie, Forsyth etc.) rather than giving prospects like Whichelow and Murray any sort of chance, and the football we play is generally awful.

I'm not demanding for his head after losses to Reading and Birmingham, though as I've said I never wanted him as manager in the first place, but I'm absolutely certain that if he fails to bring in at least one effective winger and a striker that actually scores some goals, and we pick up an injury or two and/or sell Sordell then he won't have the managerial experience or ability to stop us from going down.I can relate to this and understand and respect your view. I think Dyche is doing ok, but most of his signings have proved to be poor ones. A player on Iwelumo's salary should be the first on the team sheet, and not warming the bench. We paid money for Garner who doesn't even get into the squad, and Forsyth has been very disappointing. Mirfin was signed as a backup, but wasn't even good enough for that. Yeates and Dicko always play, but they have not really showed consistancy and are very irratic in form. I would say only Nosworthy and Hogg have been a real hit. Dyche rubber stamps all transfers of course, but I think his hands are tied largely by the financial restraints he has to work under. I think you have to look at the scouting policy at the club right now. In Mackay's time we were unearthing real gems, like Graham, Buckley, Cowie and Conway was on his way also. Now we don't seem to be doing that. We are probably going too cheap without the experience or skill to make the most of the little money we have. Instead of buying giant screens, PA systems and doing up the Red Lion, I think Bassini's money would have been better spent on the playing side, as losing our Championship status would be a disaster for the club.

[Optimistichornet]

didnt really expect anything different. need some creativity asap. bring on spurs on friday.

magic of the cup!

[UHORNS]

Im not sure getting rid of Dyche is the answer just yet,but I do know there is a more than capable manager who's only just out of work who i'm sure would sort us out.

[Hornet36]

you would of thought with Dyche being a defender we would have a good back 4 ....
I don`t like the guy but get in Neil Warnock to help out Dyche

[hornetboy1]

You summed up the invalidity of your point when you based our 'inability to turn things around' and 'chickens coming home to roost' on the basis of our last three league games.I can see you're just one of these posters that like to pick arguments on this board when opinion differs from your own. I can't really be bothered with it, unless you can debate as an adult, rather than the brainless "doom monger" retorts you usually come out with. So I guess you are happy and celebrating our recent results and our position in the league fills you with hope. Our stunning forward line is the envy of every team in the division....yes? If I am correct, I am happy for you to have this opinion, but it is not one I share with you.

[J.B]

you would of thought with Dyche being a defender we would have a good back 4 ....

Erm, we do...

In fact that's our main strength.


I can see you're just one of these posters that like to pick arguments on this board when opinion differs from your own. I can't really be bothered with it, unless you can debate as an adult, rather than the brainless "doom monger" retorts you usually come out with. So I guess you are happy and celebrating our recent results and our position in the league fills you with hope. Our stunning forward line is the envy of every team in the division....yes? If I am correct, I am happy for you to have this opinion, but it is not one I share with you.

Unfortunately a doom monger is exactly what you are; there is nothing brainless about saying that. In fact I don't think I have ever seen you say anything in the slightest bit positive on here.

And no we haven't done well in our last three games but most people would have expected that seeing as in two of them we were playing against two of the top six teams with better squads and resources than us. Our strike force isn't amazing but neither is it poor. Our league position does fill me with hope; I think it is fair to say that everyone expected us to be lower and not six points clear having been unbeaten for months as recently as three games ago.

I've seen nothing in the last few games that has made me think that we are behind hope and doomed like you have great pleasure in suggesting.

[hornetboy1]

Unfortunately a doom monger is exactly what you are. In fact I don't think I have ever seen you say anything in the slightest bit positive on here.

And no we haven't done well in our last three games but most people would have expected that seeing as in two of them we were playing against two of the top six teams with better squads and resources than us. Our strike force isn't amazing but neither is it poor. Our league position does fill me with hope; I think it is fair to say that everyone expected us to be lower and not six points clear having been unbeaten for months as recently as three games ago.

I've seen nothing in the last few games that has made me think that we are behind hope and doomed like you have great pleasure in suggesting.Like I said, I can't be bothered with you. I will only debate with someone that has something intelligent to say.

[J.B]

Like I said, I can't be bothered with you. I will only debate with someone that has something intelligent to say.

What point of my response is unintelligent or offensive?

I answered all of the questions and gave the opinion that you asked of me.

[Yellow]

I went to the game and we have a few clear problems that need to be addressed. Dickenson isn't good enough. Slow, technically untalented. Mark Yates doesn't look great either from what I saw. So the left hand side looked particularly weak. His distribution wasn't brilliant with balls being floated in that we didn't have much chance in winning.

Another key issue is creativity. We miss Kightly as we need someone who can provide Sordell with some through balls and something to finish which is a stronger attribute.

Sordell looked lazy. He didn't get much service and you can tell he doesn't like the ball coming to him in the air, however I would expect him to have a higher work rate and desire to win the ball.

The midfield trio of Eustace, Hogg and Bauben played well in my opinion and there was clear fight in the way Eustace played.

MOTM for me was Deeny. Won everything and put in more effort than the team combined. Can see him developing into a useful hard working regular.

[hornetboy1]

What point of my response is unintelligent or offensive?

I answered all of the questions and gave the opinion that you asked of me.It's brainless because you try to pigeon hole someone into a box. You like to label everything and everyone. To me that shows a lack of understanding of what someone is trying to say. It's the easiest thing in the world to say "doom monger". You dont have to engage your brain for that. Do I ever call you a "happy clapper"? No I don't, as I know everyone sees things differently and that is healthy. It's not being less loyal to Watford to say you think they are struggling and mistakes have been made. You have to understand this, and stop trying to pick fights with anyone that voices a concern. I try to give a balanced view with opinion and fact. You really dont need to get quite so upset with that. I have nothing against you, and I'm happy to keep it that way. Afterall we are all Watford fans and I think I can safely say we are all pretty much pissed off after today's result.

[leighton buzzard horn]

I went to the game and we have a few clear problems that need to be addressed. Dickenson isn't good enough. Slow, technically untalented. Mark Yates doesn't look great either from what I saw. So the left hand side looked particularly weak. His distribution wasn't brilliant with balls being floated in that we didn't have much chance in winning.

Another key issue is creativity. We miss Kightly as we need someone who can provide Sordell with some through balls and something to finish which is a stronger attribute.

Sordell looked lazy. He didn't get much service and you can tell he doesn't like the ball coming to him in the air, however I would expect him to have a higher work rate and desire to win the ball.

The midfield trio of Eustace, Hogg and Bauben played well in my opinion and there was clear fight in the way Eustace played.

MOTM for me was Deeny. Won everything and put in more effort than the team combined. Can see him developing into a useful hard working regular.

Hmm, doesn't sound too clever and the Reading & Pompey performances weren't up to much either.

I hope we don't revert back to how we were at the start of the season, with no attacking nouse in the team and a disinterested/lazy Sordell up front.

[Yellow]

Hmm, doesn't sound too clever and the Reading & Pompey performances weren't up to much either.

I hope we don't revert back to how we were at the start of the season, with no attacking nouse in the team and a disinterested/lazy Sordell up front.

I don't know if it's the kind of player Sordell is, or if he just wants to go. With the ability he's got it just seems a shame to be wasted by having an apathetic attitude.

[J.B]

It's brainless because you try to pigeon hole someone into a box. You like to label everything and everyone. To me that shows a lack of understanding of what someone is trying to say. It's the easiest thing in the world to say "doom monger". You dont have to engage your brain for that. Do I ever call you a "happy clapper"? No I don't, as I know everyone sees things differently and that is healthy. It's not being less loyal to Watford to say you think they are struggling and mistakes have been made. You have to understand this, and stop trying to pick fights with anyone that voices a concern. I try to give a balanced view with opinion and fact. You really dont need to get quite so upset with that. I have nothing against you, and I'm happy to keep it that way. Afterall we are all Watford fans and I think I can safely say we are all pretty much pissed off after today's result.

The problem is that you don't give a balanced view; all I ever see you do is moan and be completely pessimistic regardless of whether things are going well or going badly.

I'm not picking fights with people who view things differently or raise a concern; I am merely questioning the people who seem to do it all the time, exaggerate and only turn up and give a view when things are going badly.

[wfc4ever]

A predictable defeat..just as well some of the results for teams around us weren't as good as they looked at one point.

[leighton buzzard horn]

Hendo fired another hattrick for Millwall today, 'tis a shame Dyche didn't fancy him and complete the deal. He could have been a good foil for our other front players as well as bagging a few himself.

[wfcthroughandthrough]

It's brainless because you try to pigeon hole someone into a box. You like to label everything and everyone. To me that shows a lack of understanding of what someone is trying to say. It's the easiest thing in the world to say "doom monger". You dont have to engage your brain for that. Do I ever call you a "happy clapper"? No I don't, as I know everyone sees things differently and that is healthy. It's not being less loyal to Watford to say you think they are struggling and mistakes have been made. You have to understand this, and stop trying to pick fights with anyone that voices a concern. I try to give a balanced view with opinion and fact. You really dont need to get quite so upset with that. I have nothing against you, and I'm happy to keep it that way. Afterall we are all Watford fans and I think I can safely say we are all pretty much pissed off after today's result.

HornetBoy, I think it would be the right thing to just leave this now. Clearly the both of you won't agree, and JB isn't going to end this silly feud, so if I was you, just leave it and continue to post.

On to my own thoughts, today was always going to be a struggle. The last 3 games have not been great, and the fact that those have been after Kightly has left is not just a coincidence. We desperately need a pacey winger to inject some energy into the team. Sounds like the 3 centre mids worked well today but we were just beaten by a very good side.

Dyche needs to look at a left-mid on loan and perhaps a decent goalscorer on a perm, preferably a proven one who is still banging them in (NOT IWELUMO!)

Hope to see as many of you at the next few games, (except from Millwall which I will be steering clear of). We are still 6 points clear of Forest, this season is about survival and always has been. Up the 'orns!

[hornetboy1]

Hmm, doesn't sound too clever and the Reading & Pompey performances weren't up to much either.

I hope we don't revert back to how we were at the start of the season, with no attacking nouse in the team and a disinterested/lazy Sordell up front.Yes, I think the main reason our form improved was the introduction of Kightly. Our form has gone back to the pre-Kightly period and this is what concerns me. Kightly gave us an extra dimension, and teams had to be wary of him. Now we have very little to trouble a Championship defence and it is easy to defend against Watford. I read Dyche said he was aware we need to threathen wide areas, but didn't seem to concerned about it. I can only hope he is doing a lot behind the scenes.

[wfcthroughandthrough]

Yes, I think the main reason our form improved was the introduction of Kightly. Our form has gone back to the pre-Kightly period and this is what concerns me. Kightly gave us an extra dimension, and teams had to be wary of him. Now we have very little to trouble a Championship defence and it is easy to defend against Watford. I read Dyche said he was aware we need to threathen wide areas, but didn't seem to concerned about it. I can only hope he is doing a lot behind the scenes.

He has said we are looking at options, but most probably to expect a player in on loan.

[hornetboy1]

He has said we are looking at options, but most probably to expect a player in on loan.I really hope you're right mate. The team is close to being pretty decent, but without a couple of quality players, every match is going to be a struggle.

[gloryhornhaz]

I am very worried about this 2nd half of the season, that is all.

[zztop]

The problem is that you don't give a balanced view; all I ever see you do is moan and be completely pessimistic regardless of whether things are going well or going badly.

I'm not picking fights with people who view things differently or raise a concern; I am merely questioning the people who seem to do it all the time, exaggerate and only turn up and give a view when things are going badly.

JB, even from my far away position (currently on a Caribbean beach) and from previous exchanges with him, it is plain to see that Hornetboy doesn't try and debate with anyone who disagrees with him. He regularly replies with such comments as "I can see you're just one of these posters that like to pick arguments on this board when opinion differs from your own" and then complains that others try to "pigeon hole" hi! Doh!. Then he says we are immature and doesn't want to waste his time arguing with people who have nothing "adult to say". I've been supporting the club for almost 50 years and have my own successful business employing many, yet he thinks I am immature compared to him. He seems to think that name-calling is an essential part of discussing alternate views on a forum and personally, I remember having similar childish arguments in the school playground many years ago when I was about 13, which is probably somewhere near his real age now.

The way he behaves, is a shame, because he does try and make a constructive argument to back his (usually) negative views, but then spoils it by getting all upset when someone disagrees with him. He should try and learn that even a well constructed argument does not always mean that it is right.

Personally, I prefer it when others disagree with me as, a discussion forum where everyone agrees with each other, would be a boring place to be.

[TheDon]

We were alright first half hour, but their goal changed the whole game. We have no creativity and we should've gone 4-4-2 at half-time. We were ****e.
Decent atmosphere but it's depressing watching the majority of fans sit on their hands for the whole game

[YellowHornets]

Didnt sound great on the radio, sounded as though we had the better of part of the first half but we done nothing with it. Im just hoping Dyche can make another good signing like the Kightly one, dont think we'll get Smith as he scored today but who knows. I doubt Rhodes would come to Watford would he, just a thought. Also even though Forsyth didnt start today, when he did last week, it just seemed like our passing football fell apart, all of what was happening seemed to be long balls to Forsyth because he's tall but it just didnt seem to work too well, I agree that him in the middle/up front might work better.

[V Crabro]

I am very worried about this 2nd half of the season, that is all.

Don't panic, 4 wins, 8 draws and 7 defeats will see us hovering around our current position until the end of the season.

Current 30

Millwall A 0
Barnsley H 1
Forest A 1
Leicester H 3
Palace A 0
Soton H 1
Burnley H 1
West Ham A 0
Derby A 0
Coventry H 3
Bristol C A 1
Ipswich H 3
Leeds A 0
Blackpool H 1
Cardiff A 0
Hull H 3
Brighton A 0
P'Boro A 1
M'Boro H 1

Final 50

[watford]

If we had this defence with last years strike force we will be top 3 which is most depressing

[hornetboy1]

If we had this defence with last years strike force we will be top 3 which is most depressingTotally agree, but this has been Watford's problem most season's as they never get it quite right. What I find frustrating most is that keep finding "the golden goose" only to let it fly away. We've had Brenden Rodgers, Malky Mackay, Danny Graham, Don Cowie, Will Buckley etc etc and we've let it all go. Just imagine where we would be now if these guys were still with us. We've just been so badly let down by the men that have run the club over the past few years.

[The Voice of Reason]

C + P from The Wobby

Watford’s problems are mounting again after they suffered a third straight league defeat with a 3-0 loss at Birmingham City.

Two of the goals came from an unexpected source, centre-half Curtis Davies, who capitalised on poor marking to head the Blues in front nine minutes before the break before he doubled his tally with a far-post header from a corner on the hour-mark. Chris Burke then made certain of the points for Chris Hughton’s in-form side with the third eight minutes from time.

The Hornets had gone into the game with a change of approach, deploying a five-man midfield behind lone striker Marvin Sordell. The signs prior to Birmingham taking the lead - and for a spell at the start of the second half - had been encouraging but, as with last week’s defeat to Reading, Watford lacked a creative edge and end product, managing just four goal attempts in the whole game and only one of which was on target.

Sean Dyche made just the one change from the side that suffered a late defeat against the Royals seven days previously. Jonathan Hogg returned after missing that game with a knee injury, with Craig Forsyth dropping to the bench.

The result of this was Watford opened the contest with a 4-1-4-1 formation, with Hogg playing the main sitting role in front of the back four, John Eustace operating more advanced and Prince Buaben the furthest forward of the three central midfielders. Mark Yeates switched to the left, with Troy Deeney offering offensive support to Sordell from the right

IMO the idea was not bad (Reference the part highlighted in bold), but I would have used the personnel in slightly different positions: -

I would have played Deeney up front kept Yeates on the right and played Sordell on the left, with both of them offering offensive support for Deeney!!! One other thing I might have considered would have been playing Forsyth as the central most advanced midfielder also supporting Deeney, instead of Bauben, with the rest of the team remaining the same as played.

What do you guys think?

[hornetboy1]

C + P from The Wobby

Watford’s problems are mounting again after they suffered a third straight league defeat with a 3-0 loss at Birmingham City.

Two of the goals came from an unexpected source, centre-half Curtis Davies, who capitalised on poor marking to head the Blues in front nine minutes before the break before he doubled his tally with a far-post header from a corner on the hour-mark. Chris Burke then made certain of the points for Chris Hughton’s in-form side with the third eight minutes from time.

The Hornets had gone into the game with a change of approach, deploying a five-man midfield behind lone striker Marvin Sordell. The signs prior to Birmingham taking the lead - and for a spell at the start of the second half - had been encouraging but, as with last week’s defeat to Reading, Watford lacked a creative edge and end product, managing just four goal attempts in the whole game and only one of which was on target.

Sean Dyche made just the one change from the side that suffered a late defeat against the Royals seven days previously. Jonathan Hogg returned after missing that game with a knee injury, with Craig Forsyth dropping to the bench.

The result of this was Watford opened the contest with a 4-1-4-1 formation, with Hogg playing the main sitting role in front of the back four, John Eustace operating more advanced and Prince Buaben the furthest forward of the three central midfielders. Mark Yeates switched to the left, with Troy Deeney offering offensive support to Sordell from the right

IMO the idea was not bad (Reference the part highlighted in bold), but I would have used the personnel in slightly different positions: -

I would have played Deeney up front kept Yeates on the right and played Sordell on the left, with both of them offering offensive support for Deeney!!! One other thing I might have considered would have been playing Forsyth as the central most advanced midfielder also supporting Deeney, instead of Bauben, with the rest of the team remaining the same as played.

What do you guys think?TBH I dont think it really matters too much on the tactics, as we had our strongest possible team out there and we got nowhere near. You can shuffle the pack as much as you like, but if the quality isn't there, there's not too much you can do, apart from hoping the opposition have an off day.

[Eloden]

Thought we started well today, then went downhill from there. Didn't deserve to be losing at half time. The second goal destroyed us, heads went down and that was it. Dyche didn't really seem to have anything to respond with.

Dickinson was absolute cack, they launched constant attacks down that wing and he was responsible for us conceding.

So much better for away fans when seating is unreserved like it was today, the atmosphere was great apart from a few idiots amongst our support.

Let's not start panicking yet, remember our unbeaten run, there are teams far worse than us in the Championship but Dyche needs to see the warning signs and sort it out!

[Ghost of Barry Endean]

Thought we started well today, then went downhill from there. Didn't deserve to be losing at half time. The second goal destroyed us, heads went down and that was it. Dyche didn't really seem to have anything to respond with.Dickinson was absolute cack, they launched constant attacks down that wing and he was responsible for us conceding.

So much better for away fans when seating is unreserved like it was today, the atmosphere was great apart from a few idiots amongst our support.

Let's not start panicking yet, remember our unbeaten run, there are teams far worse than us in the Championship but Dyche needs to see the warning signs and sort it out!

This is the depressing thing - he literally didn't have anything to respond with. When you looked at the bench, you knew that as soon as we were behind, we were fooked. And so it proved.
It is difficult with only 5 subs, but -
a) Iwelumo should never ever be in a Watford match day squad again. Ever. At least have Garner there if nothing better is available
b) Forsyth should be able to be deployed in several positions, making Doyley redundant and freeing up space for a pacey attack-minded player (Whichelow, Murray, even recall Assombalonga or Massey)

The bench at the moment makes you realise there is no credible Plan B.

[watford]

1. what we urgently need is a winger (smith being ideal if we can get him on loan with view of permant deal)
2. MOST IMPORTANT GET RID OFF IWELUMP.
3.get rid off sordell for £5million to free up funds to sign smith or sign a more solid striker who has a proven goal scoring record even if lower league)
4. if not 3. then try different striking options. E.g. Assombalonga, garner, massey, deeney
5.TRY OUR YOUNGSTERS OUT, I MUCH PREFER A MACKAY TEAM OF LAST YEAR WHERE HE ACTUALLY USED YOUNGSTERS AND WE PLAYED ENJOYABLE FOOTBALL!!!
6. i will also sign a left back on loan, dickinson is becoming more of a liability then Loach!

[wfcwarehouse]

1. what we urgently need is a winger (smith being ideal if we can get him on loan with view of permant deal)
2. MOST IMPORTANT GET RID OFF IWELUMP.
3.get rid off sordell for £5million to free up funds to sign smith or sign a more solid striker who has a proven goal scoring record even if lower league)
4. if not 3. then try different striking options. E.g. Assombalonga, garner, massey, deeney
5.TRY OUR YOUNGSTERS OUT, I MUCH PREFER A MACKAY TEAM OF LAST YEAR WHERE HE ACTUALLY USED YOUNGSTERS AND WE PLAYED ENJOYABLE FOOTBALL!!!
6. i will also sign a left back on loan, dickinson is becoming more of a liability then Loach!

Get back to us when you've rubber-stamped the deal, please.

[ForzaWatford]

The thing I find with our team is too many players with talent go missing too often, Yeates, dicko, sordell and buaben all show glimpses every game but go missing too often! The problem is do you sub them off and risk not having a potential moment of magic. Also they all know there is no-one whose gonna replace them if they do play badly, especially yeates and sordell

[wfcwarehouse]

The thing I find with our team is too many players with talent go missing too often, Yeates, dicko, sordell and buaben all show glimpses every game but go missing too often! The problem is do you sub them off and risk not having a potential moment of magic. Also they all know there is no-one whose gonna replace them if they do play badly, especially yeates and sordell

Totally agree with this.

Yeates is the biggest culprit I'm afraid. For his whole running round like a headless chicken routine and showing for the ball, he doesn't really do much with it. He's got zero pace, and his set piece delivery by and large is attrocious. He's a hard worker but little else for me.

[lutonh8a]

We started of well but I thought that it looked like our players were scared to have a shot Sordell shouldve pulled the trigger in the 1st half intead of playing it back to Deeney even if he was at an angle. I think that we a crying out for a winger with a bit of speed we never realy made any runs in behind the Birmingham defence everything seemed to be played in front of them and then we would cross from a deep position and most of the time the player crossing the ball did not have a target in the box anyway, Marvin realy needs some more support dont think 4-5-1 worked great.. Dickinson was terrible everything that he did he messed it up. I thought Hogg had a fairly decent game and covered alot of ground, Noseworthy wasent to bad either made some meaty challenges and my man of the match in a Watford shirt would have to be Troy Deeney purely due to his work rate.

[ForzaWatford]

Totally agree with this.

Yeates is the biggest culprit I'm afraid. For his whole running round like a headless chicken routine and showing for the ball, he doesn't really do much with it. He's got zero pace, and his set piece delivery by and large is attrocious. He's a hard worker but little else for me.
You mention Yeates set-pieces and did anyone notice how good kightly's deliveries were on motd, why didn't we let him take corners when he was here! Or did he and I'm just being an idiot aha

[hornetboy1]

You mention Yeates set-pieces and did anyone notice how good kightly's deliveries were on motd, why didn't we let him take corners when he was here! Or did he and I'm just being an idiot ahaThe thing is, when Kightly delivers a good ball for Wolves, they have players that anticipate where it will go and can also head it. We have neither. I lost count of the times where Kightly crossed the ball only for no one to have gambled and the chance went begging.

[YellowHornets]

Even if our players couldnt anticipate Kightlys crosses I still believe heshouldve been taking set pieces ahead of Yeates, his crosses on MOTD looked inch perfect every time, did seem like he went quiet 2nd half for them.

[To pints of Lager now]

you would of thought with Dyche being a defender we would have a good back 4 ....
I don`t like the guy but get in Neil Warnock to help out Dyche

lol....Read Joey Barton's write up on Warnock,called him Mike Bassett

[Jelboy]

Some posters on here have said that Deeney was their MOTM; I thought he had one of his least effective games for weeks - yes he has bundles of energy - but he was playing so deep, he was always playing 'catch-up' when trying to support the isolated Sordell. Sordell put a decent shift in but lumping balls up to him when against two big centre halves, was a poor tactic, if he did win it, he had nobody to give it to, if he lost it he was left chasing back, leaving us nothing up front at all.

Dickinson and Yeates provided nothing! Dickinson had a nightmare and Yeates bottles out of so many challenges, I would hate to have him as a team mate - to me he lacks professionalism - in the professional game you should not have players playing who are not prepared to put a challenge in - he was gob!

Loach did well, no chance with the goals - our defending was naive at best. To be beaten by two free headers from a centre half is worrying.

The sad thing is Birmingham were not in the game for the first 30 minutes, even after the first goal we looked OK - second half was abysmal, we offered nothing at all and were playing so deep, Birmingham could have had four or five by the end - the final whistle couldn't have come quickly enough.

A performance like this on Friday and we could get an embarrassing pasting...

[wfc4ever]

Dickinson seems to be getting wosrse as the season goes on.

[Bunk]

I went yesterday, and I wish I hadn't.

I'm not ashamed to admit I gave up my season ticket last year, and watching the last few games, I can now see I made the right choice.

I'll admit, the 3-0 at Brum doesn't worry me in terms of the result, but the performance, now that is a worry.

No creativity, no pace and no threat - honestly, with the current squad as it is, we could go down!

Desperately miss Kightly and need someone of that calibre. What also conxerns me is Dyche's signings. How many of then have honestly worked out? What little money he had available, appears to have been wasted.

[The Voice of Reason]

It seems to me that when Dicko is accused of having a nightmare, it's usually when the wide left player does not track back to help out, as they should! Could this be what is making Dicko look bad, being left exposed by his LMF colleague, who should be covering runs by an overlapping full back, which would prevent Dicko being left with two players to cover!!!

[Layton]

It was dreadful , first ten minutes as per soton we did OK , should have tested the goalkeeper (sordell) after that it went south , and i think we only had one other shot after that , deeney , start of second half....we were back in the pub by final whistle after a taxi
we look clueless and very very poor, and i dont blame sordell getting the hump , the `service` to him is diabolical, he must be desperate to leave

[Kieran]

Wasn't a very enjoyable outing, that. I disagree with the idea that Sordell was particularly lazy yesterday, I remember he chased down defenders and forced them to clear it to touch rather than see it out at the byline on a number of occasions. He also anticipated where Deeney would flick the ball down far more accuractely, but for whatever reason we didn't do a lot with it in the final third. We kept possession well, and Birmingham didn't look too big a threat except for from set pieces - which is where all three of their goals came from I think, unless the first was a just cross? We need to be better drilled defending corners, clearly. Birmingham look like they're good at them but we should have done better.

Eustace and Hogg played pretty well, Buaben drifted in and out, but was our only chance at creating something in the way that we were looking to, i.e. on the floor, crafted, passing the ball slowly up the pitch (I like this, a good change from lumping it to Forsyth to head down and god from there). But with all the possession and dominance we seemed to have in the first half, Mariappa dived into one challenge to cause a corner (I'm pretty sure that's right), and we're 1-0 down. Heads went down, but i wasn't actually that worried if I'm honest, as we were in control for a large part of the game, and Birmingham looked about as dangerous as we did at the time.

I think we really do need a winger. Maybe Yeates and Dicko are a bad pairing on the same side, as Dicko does make mistakes, and Yeates isn't the best coming back to defend. Perhaps if/when we get this good winger in (in my opinion should be by far the highest priority - if we get just one signing this Jan it should be here), we could try Yeates on the other side because he was playing on the right when Kightly was here, and I'd say he's betteron that side. Yeates played a couple of really good balls through yesterday, but screwed up the others. And that's the problem with Yeates. He always always tries the killer ball, and it rarely comes off. He also gets caught in possession too often.

I thought Nosworthy did well when in possession and his tackling was superb. Can't really comment on how he was in the air, but someone must have been at fault for the first two goals. Mariappa was good but made a couple of costly mistakes, which was disappointing to see, but that's just the way it goes sometimes, i still think he's our best defender, and an excellent defender at that.

What really gets me is that all of their goals were avoidable. Two set pieces where their CB heads in from a pretty open, easy space, and a (good) shot because we don't close down after the first stage of the corner (this was especially frustrating I feel for Loach, as he had just made a couple of excellent saves, one of which caused the corner).

Oh well, like I said against Reading and Portsmouth, these have been games/settings that lower mid-table sides will always struggle against/in, as Birmingham and Pompey are especially strong at home, and Reading are playoff candidates (even though they really didn't look like it to me). We need to beat as many teams at home as possible, and get the points away when where we can, but a loss away to one of the frontrunners won't look bad at the end of the season, it'll be regularly dropping points at home against less strong opposition that will end up sending a team down.

Bring on Spurs...

[Malteser]

Ever wondered why Yeates, Dickinson and Iwelumo have had so many clubs in their careers and been farmed out on loan spells too? They're journeymen, capable of the occasional decent performance but very little consistency. What a pity Dyche saw fit to buy them all rather than trying to unearth a diamond or two in the lower leagues or even have a little more belief in our own young players. The fast, attacking younger side Malky built seems to have turned into a slower, less effective outfit.

[With A Smile]

Ever wondered why Yeates, Dickinson and Iwelumo have had so many clubs in their careers and been farmed out on loan spells too? They're journeymen, capable of the occasional decent performance but very little consistency. What a pity Dyche saw fit to buy them all rather than trying to unearth a diamond or two in the lower leagues or even have a little more belief in our own young players. The fast, attacking younger side Malky built seems to have turned into a slower, less effective outfit.

These are the younger quicker talented bunch that won just 3 of 21 game since January last year ? some of these youngsters are struggeling to get into lower league teams reguarly while on loan

We all know that we have an average squad with average players, we all know we lack pace and lack goals and we have all known since last summer that we are likely to finish in the bottom 5 or 6, why is everyone acting as if they are suprized ?

[Malteser]

These are the younger quicker talented bunch that won just 3 of 21 game since January last year ? some of these youngsters are struggeling to get into lower league teams reguarly while on loan

We all know that we have an average squad with average players, we all know we lack pace and lack goals and we have all known since last summer that we are likely to finish in the bottom 5 or 6, why is everyone acting as if they are suprized ?

Yes ur not wrong. On the other thread (Will we stay up?) I did post that the best players in a losing side are usually the ones not actually playing. Reputations tend to grow when you're not in the firing line! Dyche obviously thinks that many of them aren't ready and that we needed more experience in our side. However, as I posted on the other thread, that experience seems to consist mainly of journeymen players who were relegated from the Championship last season. Compare that to the kind of experienced signing AB made when he recruited Malky and the difference is apparent.

[wfcwarehouse]

I went yesterday, and I wish I hadn't.

I'm not ashamed to admit I gave up my season ticket last year, and watching the last few games, I can now see I made the right choice.

I'll admit, the 3-0 at Brum doesn't worry me in terms of the result, but the performance, now that is a worry.

No creativity, no pace and no threat - honestly, with the current squad as it is, we could go down!

Desperately miss Kightly and need someone of that calibre. What also conxerns me is Dyche's signings. How many of then have honestly worked out? What little money he had available, appears to have been wasted.

Very good point. Apart from Hogg and perhaps Nosworthy, most of Dyche's signings have been rubbish.